Psychedelic Education & Mycelial Technologies - Darren Le Baron – Mushroom Revival

Psychedelic Education & Mycelial Technologies - Darren Le Baron

Darren Le Baron, aka Darren Springer, joins us  to talk about his work in psychedelic education around the globe. We ran into his glowing presence at Telluride Mushroom Fest, in the midst of his spore-spreading travels. Specifically, Darren teaches permaculture, mushroom cultivation,  mycology, and Pan-African history of mushrooms & other psychedelics. 

We discuss his nomadic education and research, how fungi are a fundamental natural technology, the life-giving roles of decomposition, and personal use of mushrooms.


Topics Covered:

  • Darren's voyages overseas to spread his teachings and skills to communities around the globe
  • Pan-African historical use of psilocybe mushrooms and other psychedelics
  • How Darren navigates the flow of learning and teaching in the psychedelic space
  • Dualities, paradoxes and puzzles
  • Acknowledging organic systems as technologies 

Show Notes:

Darren Le Baron's Website:
Kew's State of the World's Fungi:
Hermetic Principles:
Breaking Convention Psychedelic Conference:
Documented Psilocybe Species in 2000 byGastón Guzmán:





Transcribed by ** Subject to error
Alex D. 0:00
You're listening to the mushroom revival podcast.

Lera 0:04
On this week's episode, we're speaking with Darren lebaron, who we ran into at telluride mushroom best and had an impromptu spontaneous podcast episode with him. But due to a bit of liras, negligence and some loose wires, we lost the first 10 ish minutes of the original conversation. So we called him up and had him talk with us again to kind of redo the intro and cover a bit of the ground that we lost. So you will notice a transition, but halfway through the show, but no matter this was a super real deep conversation about psychedelics, the human condition, African psychedelic history, personal stories and predicaments. It's juicy guys,

Alex D. 0:50
let's get into it. But first, as always, the review of the week. This week's review is coming from B purses x these usernames, guys. I mean, they're so creative. The title is my rap for the cap. And the review is as follows lira and Alex they have the passion, you can tell they aren't just in it to cash in. They are spreading the spores of knowledge mush you cannot get in college. I'm really thankful for all they do and I hope they read my review piece out we did read your review and we're so happy that you wrote it. If anyone wants to be featured on our show, please leave a review we will read it and highlight our favorite review of the week. And other ways that you can support the show we have a website mushroom revival calm, where we have a whole line of functional mushroom extracts, there are literally so freakin easy. I know, y'all, we're all human. I'm sure everyone wakes up, they don't feel the best every single day. This is literally a less than five second routine that you can support your health, energy, focus, immune support, you name it. And you can use a special discount code.

Lera 2:09
pod treat, which we od Tru ID,

Alex D. 2:13
which we're not even going to tell you how much you're going to save. It's a surprise little easter egg the other day. Yeah, we change it all the time. Who knows. You have to plug it in at checkout to figure out how much you're going to save. And you know, tell your friends tell your family tell a random person that you bumped in, into on the side of the street about mushrooms about the show. Let's keep spreading the spores and keep mushrooms alive. So please welcome Darren lebaron

Lera 3:00
this is take two introduction with Darren lebaron in telluride where we met wonderful time. loose wires, kind of compromise the first few minutes of the podcast. But this is the beauty of the 21st century. We've got technology to reach you now in New York. We're in Austin, Texas. Thanks for joining us on a Monday morning Darren.

Darren 3:24
Thank you once again for the invitation to do a part two, Introduction at least. Me I'm happy to be back. Well,

Alex D. 3:32
you've been bopping all over the place. Since Sally, right? Where have you been? What have you been up to?

Darren 3:38
Man since Telluride, we went into Denver, from Denver. We went into Oakland, from Oakland, our hops gets jumped to Jamaica, by way of Miami and our company in New York. So yeah, just given and doing the work in those various places to spread the spores.

Alex D. 4:00
Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So for people who don't know you and your work in your glowing presence, who are you? Who is there in lebaron?

Darren 4:12
Okay, so now on the Baron wears many hats. So it kind of depends on who I'm talking to. But, you know, I have a you know, as far as the our guests the why, why we've connected is due to my connections with, you know, teaching and sharing and educating people about psychedelics, primarily, you know, mushrooms, what's commonly called magic mushrooms. I have an interest in you know, in the African, as well as Global Connections to these entheogens and plant technologies and how they've been used around the world. And I also teach people how to cultivate mushrooms as well as grow their own food. So it's kind of what I do I've background and creative arts, I organize events in a local community. I teach in schools and you know, do do a few things, but Primarily, my guess is due to my psychedelic research and mycology background that we're connected.

Lera 5:08
And you had the pleasure of learning from Kolenda, correct?

Darren 5:13
That's correct. So I came across his works many years ago about 20 plus years ago, but it was connected with martial arts because he's a master martial artist. So I'm I was privy to his work and on my own personal journey, and coming around to psychedelics, his name came up again. And I didn't, I couldn't put couldn't put it all together because it was the martial arts guy. And, you know, I was interested in psychedelics and stuff. But, you know, I've got a few of his references. And he was sharing information about psychedelics in Africa, as well as it was well as its connections to, you know, martial arts, yoga, tai chi gong swings around about, you know, everything, man, traffic lights, he was just like, yeah, this stuff is all connected to the psychedelics and particular mushrooms. And we had the opportunity to connect in the UK in 2011, due to the very first breakin convention, which is now the largest psychedelic conference in Europe, at least. And we've been, but we was building since then, and we continue to build. So I got the opportunity to work very closely with him, I supported his work he supported me, we traveled around, was just really trying to support the brother. And one day, we got to a point where it was like it's your time to step up and share some of the knowledge that you've you know, you've been pulled together. And then I was had the opportunity to present at the very first Detroit psychedelic conference in 2013, which Colombia put together which is now inspired a range of different satellite and offshoots from, you know, from the seeds or the spores that was, you know, some during that period of time between 2011 and 2013.

Alex D. 6:54
Is that how you got started getting introduced to Colombia? And that was the portal or was there any earlier experiences that even brought you to Colombia himself?

Darren 7:06
Yeah, it's kinda like that. So as far as you know, so I was on my own personal journeys, I said, working with different schools of thought different kind of modes of consciousness mode, you know, models, and just trying different shit man, basically, I was trying different practices. And I came across, you know, the psychedelic, you know, inflammation, you know, kind of like, several years later, because I was familiar with it by way of, you know, just growing up hearing about it, the guys I went to school with were taken on, but it just wasn't something that I felt was, you know, relevant at that time in my life. And I read a book called DMT, the spirit molecule by Rick strassman. And there was some testimonies in there that gave me inspiration to actually put the psychedelics to the test. Little did I know what I was going to test me but on that note, I tried to grow mushrooms because they were you it was legal to get grow kits and stuff in the UK, I was trying to grow them. And, you know, I actually came into contact with salvia divinorum by way of like a local head shop. And that was legal at the time and readily available. So because I filled those

Alex D. 8:11
bottlenecks that that was, you could just get that from gas stations. I remember when I was, I was a kid, you know, as a teenager, and you can just get that, you know, from a gas station, and it's pretty, it's crazily psychedelic, and I'm so surprised that that was just so readily available. Same with, you know, kaitou or spice for, for a little bit, you could just get that from a gas station. It's pretty nuts.

Darren 8:38
well know, in the UK, it was readily available, but you did have to go to the right places. And I don't think the gas stations had it in stock. But it was easily available. And that was my first you know, psychoactive experience. And we had a series of experiences with it. And that's what was leading me to some of my other teachers. And I was like, yo, I've had these gnarly, psychedelic experiences that are very profound, you know, what do you know about it, you know, so forth. And then two of my teachers basically directed me to kalindi. And that's when I was like, No, I don't want to speak to the martial arts guy wants me to someone who knows about psychedelics, Ella, yeah, this is the guy that's also dealing with that type of stuff. So it was during that period of time, they all kind of came into play here and the connections happen when I eventually spoke with Colin because my teacher was like, yo, I've got his phone number. You know, I'll make the exchange happen. And within hours, we was talking on the phone, and then weeks later, he was making his way to the UK for the breakin convention. So I just let it all happen synchronistically for me to be able to kind of get on my path and be well supported by somebody who knew their shit.

Lera 9:42
And then you're so eloquent with talking about this stuff, and that is not easy. So I condone your for your ability to have experiences psychoactive ones. Get a lesson from it. Integrated And then share it with other people. That's no easy feat, at least for me, and I'm sure many other people have had those experience where there's almost like an epiphany that comes to them, right. And like during the session, you feel like, things can come together or fall apart, but it's also meaningful and so relevant and applicable to your life. But then you trickle off and like, it's, you kind of lose it in a way and I want to know if you can talk about your strategies to integrate and act and is there any specific things that you do that help you do this so well?

Darren 10:40
No, there's, there's no, there's no true method to the madness, I'm trying to work it out, like everybody else, you know, our process things, you know, I take notes, in some cases or journal, but the way I do it personally, is through creative writing. And that's how I kind of personally process a lot of what I receive. I like music, I like dancing, these are some of the modalities that allow me to, to, to process what you know, I'm experiencing in the time and moment and post the experience. And, you know, just kind of not put too much pressure on myself. So make sense of everything that I've you know, experienced and you know, just work with what I can, you know, and, and pace myself with this. So, I take it, I take it seriously, I have an idea. So many others have had challenging experiences that are thrown a curveball that have made me saying, I'm not gonna do psychedelics anymore. And, you know, when, you know, it's taken years taken, you know, certain practices and techniques, like this morning, I got up and I do my stretching, and I'll do Qigong, and you know, and then at times, I just want to go and hang in the forest. So these are all different approaches that I used to just integrate in experiences, and, you know, making sense of the madness, or sometimes experience on mushrooms as well as in the physical world.

Lera 11:58
Right? I love it. I mean, you know, these are tools that anybody can have at their fingertips. So it's good to know, do you ever find yourself going back and forth on a particular value or metric for what you think is right or wrong? Or an ethic that is challenged? And then you know, one day, you're leaning one way and the next year leading another? And? Yeah, does this happen to you often? by rolling through like, What? How do I feel about something? What is my philosophy? What is my,

Darren 12:34
yeah, you're there, you're already in my head, man. Because that's just what goals are. So apples in my head every day, there's, you know, swings and roundabouts and pendulums. You know, that's how I see life and understand, we move in, you know, very circular spiral, like, movements and experiences. So I believe things come around again, you know, for you to, you know, learn from those experiences. And sometimes you sway one way, sometimes you lean to another. I know, in some of like, the mystic arts and teachings, they talk about, you know, the middle pillar, and finding a balance between the yin and the yang. And, you know, walking that path by this bloody difficult, man. So with that said, I'm just out like anybody else, you know, just trying to clear my path, you know, and work with what makes sense to me. At the same time, I have a saying that I am a walking contradiction. So don't you know, trust anything, I say, don't believe in me. I'm as faulty as anybody else. And you've got to check things out for yourself and do your own Google's because he I'm just processing all of this like everybody else. So I'm as qualified or unqualified as anybody. And I learn from people in the same way, whether it's their positive side, so to speak, or from, you know, their negative traits are and understand, it's all kind of reflections of me, us each other. And we can learn from all of it. So I take the good, the bad and the ugly. That's what mushrooms and psycho actors have definitely taught me.

Alex D. 13:56
Thank you for saying that. I don't hear that enough from people. So, I wish everyone had that, that mindset. And I honestly think that's one of the most valuable teachings from mushrooms is, you know, taking the good, bad and ugly, all together. And it's all part of the journey, right? It's all divine. It's all here. It's all a mixture of yin yang and the the in between. Which, yeah, I mean, we're in a global society, which not everywhere, but most places are pretty scared of death and, you know, or any ugly, quote unquote, ugly or dark side it's I mean, it's it's hard to fully accept that and especially in ourselves, you know, and and to be fully accountable for that is is amazing. is beautiful, I wish everyone could, you know, hold up a mirror to themselves every walking moment of their lives, it's something really powerful,

Darren 15:14
you will have no choice but to win on well, as far as when experiencing psychedelics because that's that's how it dishes it out to me personally all the time I don't just get the good, the light, the bubbles, the rainbows and the dark clouds and the dragons and the snakes and the Serpents and the skulls as well. You know, so that's how I always dish it out to me. So yeah, in that realm of space, I've come to terms I've got no choice but to embrace the dark as much as I embrace the light and appreciate that both of those energies, existences archetypes exist, and you know, they exist inside of us as well as outside of us. And, you know, we have we do our best to navigate in that

Alex D. 15:57
little tangent because I'm curious what your experience of like the the energetics of psilocybin and mushrooms. Different people have different energetics that they associate with different entheogens. So, you know, some Pedro being somewhat of a grandfather Iosco, the grim mother, and I was getting a lot of people they say it's very stern, strict, right? Whereas mushrooms, for me, I think of them as the jokesters and they're, they're light hearted, but at the same time, like, in all of my quote unquote bad trips, or uncomfortable journeys, it always wraps up with this kind of like, laughter or this kind of cosmic joke of while you thought those six hours were uncomfortable, like, imagine the next the rest of your life with that experience. So stop with like a laugh at the end, you know, and, and it always kind of brings this this subtle joking vibe, and I don't know if Do you, do you feel you have the same experience with with mushrooms and journeying through those dark areas?

Darren 17:20
Yeah, to some degree, certainly, I was asked just the other day by somebody, you know what, it's very similar question. Like, you know, iOS goes the mother and father, what do you think of mushrooms, and I was like, well, the closest I get to a gender thing is its androgynous. But I see it as a shapeshifter. And I believe, I believe I feel my experiences made me feel like mushrooms are beyond the gender thing, the polarity that governs the world that we live in the earth, the Gaia, those principles govern this space that we exist in. But mushrooms are beyond this, and some parts of us are beyond this matrix as well. And that's what it really exposes me to that it's like a kind of shape shift in androgynous here, one, you know, minute gone, the next type of paradox or quantum physics type stuff that is beyond masculine and feminine. If that makes sense.

Lera 18:18
Yeah, I mean, it goes back to your observance of getting this, both sides, you know, the beautiful and the ugly. Yeah, you know, that scene from the Titanic where the boat is sinking, and everyone knows they're gonna die. And the band just picks up their instruments and starts playing. I feel like for me, mushrooms is like that music, just kind of confronting the chaos and the pain that I'm going to feel again, that everybody I love around you feels that the whole world has and will felt and will ever feel. But like, in a weird way, it's so beautiful. And this is something I'm trying to reconcile with. Because with my meditations and like mushroom experiences, I am able to like look at these, this yin and yang of suffering and pleasure, whatever you want to however you want to divide it and accept it. But as a whole, how do I define that thing as a whole, the sum of the parts, it seems beautiful to me, yes, there's so many ugly aspects of life. But the the all encompassing emotion about it is all of existence seems to be beautiful, but I don't know if that's a privileged privileged place to be because I haven't experienced a lot of the empirical suffering or if there's actually something true to that. Yeah I don't know if that makes any sense but

Darren 20:03
it does suck I'm not gonna connect with that I feel it reminds me of you know that the Yang and the yin and the yang and in the Yang is the Yang and in the Yang as the Yang you know, you've got the larger and in within, so without, so, I use these kind of paradoxes that helped me governing loud mouth organization are so called ancient future, you know, reminder that these premises things like you know, beautiful, ugly, you know, right, you know, just like just understanding like I said, like I learned from a compensate but not as I mentioned in the last night, but like what composting taught me about just the recycling and through the ship, you know, that what we call waste the field comes divine comes fertility comes new life, like, I really appreciate the shit, you know, in my life, because I know from that shit can come fertility can come, you know, new things from that new experiences. So, those are kind of the metaphors that I work with. When I'm going through shit in life, you know, knowing what, you know, how it might turn out. And as we know, you know, especially in our culture, you know, the, the gifts, you know, give soccer or gifts, or fruited. So, I appreciate shit in my life, and sharing, you know, my experiences. And when I take a ship, basically, because I know it's recycling, it's renewing, it's, you know, doing something to create something new. And it's up to us what that new thing is, and sometimes we can repeat the same cycles and it feel like, you know, some bullshit, but yeah, okay, so it's, you know, our perspectives on that. So, if that makes sense, that's where I come from with that. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Alex D. 21:42
And on that, on the other hand, I mean, it's it. There's so many people who get caught in labeling things as bad with like, compost as a shitty experience, and they label it as bad, right? And where you're coming from is like, Well, no, that's, that's good. It's all recycled. But on the other side, it's, it's, you know, we label things as good when there's a lot of philosophies that are like there is no good and bad. It just is, right. And that's a trip in and of itself to go on. Oh, it's good. Or it's like, there is no good and bad. It's just, it is, you know, it is, it is what it is. And that's hard to is it's hard to, because we're so human, right? We just love to label things good and bad. And yeah, either way is a trip.

Lera 22:31
Yeah, is what it is thing that feels like a cop out to me sometimes. But then I go back and forth. I'm swinging like, Oh, yeah, I can accept it, you know, it's fine, then I'm like, Am I just being arrogant? Like it's a privilege to be able to say that and like, I shouldn't use that as an excuse, not totally. Yeah, it's just the constant tornado of

Alex D. 22:53
Yeah, going back to the why you brought it up. It's hard. It's hard in this human experience to deal with the complex, you know, our, the state of the world and our experience of being conscious of consciousness itself, and like, how do you perceive that? And what do you do with, you know, all this stimuli? It's hard to take a stance, right? And it's hard to feel good in where we're at, because it is this this like cosmic paradox, right? It is such a paradox and

Lera 23:29
the scale to like climate change. And, you know, tomorrow, it looks terrible. The next week, it looks terrible. In a few years, it's even worse. But the further back you stop, the less it matters. And you can step far enough away from climate change to a point where it is like, the most trivial thing to have ever happened to the universe. Where should we be on the macro scale of the here and now Yeah, I have the power to recycle this item or choose the plant based food or whatever it is. And I'm going to do that in my actions. But I've where my head has the power to step way, way out. And also step way too close and get caught up in, you know, the filth patch in my own city. And like that, that can change my perspective so much, but I'm just going up and down and up and down the spectrum and trying to decide the best place to situate my mindset, my actions, my work, to do the best for as many people as I can.

Alex D. 24:39
I think to wrap it all up. I can't remember who said that quote, but they said that they believed in God. And someone asked them like, do you do you actually believe in God? And they said, Well, you know, if I'm wrong, and God doesn't exist, then I'll die and nothing happens and it's just you know, emptiness after death, but if I'm right, then then I go to heaven because I was believing this the whole time. So either way, I'm better off if I just believe it during this short life. And you know, whether, you know, trying so hard in this in this life, whether it's one big cosmic joke and nothing ever matters, or it does, I mean, we might as well try to be the best versions of ourselves and try to be a good person and, you know, continually strive to do good, right in the world and like create less suffering. Whether in the grand scheme of things if, if at the end of this, it's one big ha moment, we're in the matrix, whatever, and nothing actually matters, or it does. But I think being a good person is the right, the right choice, you know, out of out of all decisions,

Darren 26:04
I would say, to give to give some reference so one thing that's really supported me in balancing out these paradigms and paradoxes and principles and stuff, was an I've not got my head around it. But as I mentioned, my organization's called ancient future. And I set that up based upon one of my teachers, Wayne shandler. So I'm gonna give them all shout outs, because he introduced me to call in the ears work as far as psychedelics. But when Sharla he wrote a book called ancient future, and that was like the book, just the title alone was like, on my consciousness, I didn't even read the book. And I was like, ancient future, ancient future. And just like, I really liked it, and something about it that resonated. And I eventually got the book and in the book, what he was talking about or covering was something known as the hermetic principles, the seven hermetic principles, and the seven hermetic principles you find in, in ancient Egypt, or better yet Kemet, which later filtered down into Greece and Rome. And that's when it became known as the seven hermetic principles named after the Deity, Hermes. But these seven principles that you find originally coming out of ancient Egypt by way of an archetype or a nutter call to Hootie. So this was known as to who T's wisdom. And these principles, these seven principles, some of us are familiar maybe with the law of attraction. These are one of the laws that you can find within the seven principles of the tutees law. And it's a bit deeper than just the you know, the lines themselves. But I would encourage I'm saying this to say that I would encourage you do so you guys, if you're not familiar already, or the listeners to check out, you know, the seven hermetic principles, the laws of two Hootie, their original texts are known as the green Emerald Tablets. So if he was to just Google the green Emerald Tablets, you can also Google the Cabal Ian, by the three initiates. And as this type of stuff that we're talking about is in there, it's like a nice kind of thin easy pamphlet book to go through. And then also check out wing chandeliers, ancient future book because that's a big part of what I'm why I'm and how I'm doing what I'm doing today.

Lera 28:16
Awesome, I'll definitely make sure to have links to all that in the notes. Yeah, thanks, Darren for not only developing discourse around this, but helping people navigate because it can be such a daunting thing to confront your insides, and heal yourself and those around you and you've been like such a ray of light in this community.

Darren 28:43
I appreciate that. That's why I appreciate my teachers and the elders and people shine their light onto me. So as far as me kind of coming, and being somebody who can inspire I know that I was inspired, and I hope to inspire in the same way. And there's going to be we will continue spreading spores and you know, making these mycelium connections.

Alex D. 29:04
Alright, and here is where we are splicing into the Oji talk, which requires a quick aside to follow the conversation that is about this map that Durham mentions. The map is on the Wikipedia page of psilocybin mushrooms. And the map is actually originally from a old paper from gastone koosman, which was an it's an amazing paper and you can see it in the references section on that Wikipedia page. And so that is the map. It's the distribution of Salafi species all over all over the world. And you can see it's it's pretty sparse in some regions, which obviously need a lot of exploration. For example, Africa only has five dots on the map. And so obviously, this isn't Drew I imagine there's a lot more

Lera 30:02
and we left off discussing the technology of fungi and decomposition. Also being re composition and how this material circle of life is fundamental to learning more about fungi and is fundamental to Darren's teaching about natural technologies in particular fungi. So we hope that's sufficient for you to carry on with the conversation

Darren 30:31
called third world countries which I don't actually like to use that term but in these places where they have challenges in dealing with you know, recycling soil quality and stuff like that, and I felt that you know, we need to bring that recycling and composting and this is the way we can then bring in mycology and then educate people as to what the psychoactive and medicinal mushrooms are. So this was inspired also by that map that you made reference to when I was going back and forth from Africa and seeing those five dots on the map. And knowing that that actually could be the case I don't know I've not done the research myself but I'm aware that Africa the continent is one of the most diverse continents if not the was quoted I can quote give you references that is the most diverse continent on planet earth for plant matter, you know, So would that be the same only difference we found guy and we found out by attending, you know, the intoxication, Amy by attending our intoxication conference a few years back was more than a few years ago now but they highlighted that now that's actually not an accurate representation of psilocybin distribution around the world what it is really is a district record representation of the interest and where the funding and the money is being pumped and stuff like that. And in essence Africa still considered like the dark continent is really heavily loaded You know, there's still these ideas and concepts that if you go into the deep depths of Africa, that you might end up in a big black pot you know, might not come out alive and there's a lot of Voodoo and black magic and stuff like that and if you really check out what Voodoo and black magic as some people refer to it is the same stuff that's going on in the Amazon is the same stuff that's going on in Asia you know, you just don't want people who work with nature work with the environment that they live in, they understand the plants This is what we used to call the witches you know, in Europe who they also killed and got rid of, you know, so these were the gatekeepers of this knowledge and information and our guest because it was so and there's still so much to do, there's not as much interest but again, I have African heritage by way of Barbados on the first generation of my family born in the UK, so when I follow my lineage back, likely follow this. So back to the soil. And I want to know like, what soul does my family come from and what comes from there so when I saw those five dots on that map, I was Lauer I want to look more into this stuff and just more in general not just mushrooms, but you know, how do they use these, you know, plant medicines and technologies and in the cultures and in the traditions, and I found Africa has got the most oldest, ancient, richest history in dealing with this stuff by it's just not well documented. So that's what I do man I just find that as much as I can join the dots together the mycelium knows as I like to refer to it and spread the spores man let people know what's going on.

Lera 33:12
It's about time that we have this information and I'm curious if you can talk about how you conduct this because as you said, like you've done your googling but you you don't find much on there right and I know kalindi was a huge asset and really instrumental to bringing that information but how did he do it? How did you do it? What did he teach you at it if you just be speak to your method of research,

Darren 33:36
or picture shout out to the whole g killing D because if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing I stand on his shoulders I carry the baton along with many others in our circle in our community. But for 30 let's say 40 plus years Colin D was probably the one and only person in the public domain publicly speaking about psychoactive plant technology from as a global story because he had a global message and a global story that he shared but with a focus on African cultures and traditions. And I was in our community in the UK he was familiar with his work because he was a master martial artists that's what we knew him for. And you know, when I came around in that period of time of studying and learning about mycelium and all of this stuff, he re entered my life and I was like no I don't want the master martial artist in my life I wanted to meet mycologist but you know that no, this is what he's into as well you need to check that you know, it is what he's covering. So this was like 2011 and this is as as when the breakin convention the very first one in the UK which is now the largest in the UK or definitely the UK maybe Europe now and he was like you're going to be attending this conference in you know, in a month or two and let's just walk up and get the alarm that I know your work. So I'm already putting on events in the UK around this type these types of themes you know around African history and culture is what you know another one of the tools that I have in my toolbox that are you do something like when you come to the UK to do this thing in Canterbury. Let's get back to London. spend you know, a few You will end up spending a few weeks, you know, doing events in and around London and you know the rest of the UK. And I've got I like to consider myself as a grassroots researcher, I like, you know, you've got all these high end conferences, but then the people on the ground can't really access them, they can't afford it if sometimes they actually don't know that they're taking place. So you know what, I'll make sure that the community does know and and I put on events that are affordable, and people can get access to them, or get these big speakers and say, you know, come to my come to the hood, man, come to the hood, come to my community, meet my community, and hear, you know, let them you know, share what you've got to share. So we've done that and developed an amazing community. And then he introduced me to his community in Detroit and how he done it was basically just sharing the images that you know, the How can I say it was hidden in plain sight, stuff that I'd seen and I had already been researched before I came, became privy to his work, but then he was sharing stuff in his work. And he was like all to do with mushrooms, and I'm like, and all this stuff, but I never saw mushrooms in this. Nobody ever taught me the connections with mushrooms in this world, you know, stuff to do with ancient Egypt, you know, stuff to do with, you know, the indigenous people from you know, Central Africa whom not many people know today from Gabon, by way of a bolga you know, and stuff like that. So he's introducing these ideas, but just showing them how ancient they are, and how pretty much the oldest of all of these psychedelics mushrooms being the mother of, you know, all of these traditions or secret societies, you know, ancient practices like yoga and meditation, all that come out of the mushroom, I'm like, this guy just taken too many mushrooms. He's like, he's like swings around about traffic lights, you name it, these all peanut butter. They've all been inspired by mushrooms and mycology, you don't get you know, George Washington Carver, he was a mycologist, he was engaged in, in a technology and he came up with all these patterns and stuff. And he's like, you know, as we know, the Apple iPhone, you know, being inspired by psychoactive and stuff. So he was just tying it all in with the mushroom stuff. And I'd like this guy to take away mushrooms, and he's mushroom bias. And I'll become one of those guys who've taken way too many mushrooms and become much inquires. And I'm, you know, I'm singing from the same hymn sheet. But with that said, He inspired me to then do this, you know, take on the retake on some of his research, do my own research than I used to go back to him saying, I found this out, I've got this, you know, piece of information, and it might be useful for you that eventually says, it's time for you to stand up and share what you're finding, you're like, this is your research man. So he was like, come to Detroit. And I'm putting on a conference, the very first one and you're going to be one of our keynote speakers. And that's how it all happened in between that and the breakin convention, I'd like to take a client of seriously from last year I'm going to practically you know, do the research, do my Google's on the internet by these publications and stuff and start joining the dots. And in one day, I might be just like, go into these places. And in the last handful of years, I've been able to go to these places, go to these ancient sites meet with the people because what you're going to find is in in Africa, traditions in general are an oral tradition. So a lot of the stuff isn't recorded and documented in the ways that we look and just jump online and find this information. So therefore you need to also be you know, to actually get the oral information you can't just turn up and say, hey, I want to know what's going on in with your traditions. Tell me about it. You've got to be initiated, you've got to be part of the lineage the bloodline is there's a lot to it. So you know, it's not our can't just rock up and get knowledge and information. But then there are some gangers, who would refer to as priest or shamans and people who are the Knowledgeable ones, the Why is one of the gatekeepers, who were also aware, we can't go much longer without making the connections happen. So I had the same experiences in Gambia, you know, the younger generation, they want to bring in composting and recycling, and the elders are not privy to that stuff. And they're like, why, you know, and then they find out that the younger generation were from actually don't want to learn some of the stuff because they want to come to America and Britain and they want to have IMAX on iPhones and stuff and he wants to learn about these plants and how to use them as medicine stuff but then you've got these folks where I'm from in the UK saying hey, we want to reconnect, he never had those experiences we didn't have the elders and the wise ones to teach us those connections. So it takes some of us that were distributed in the west to come back home to meet with our elders who are really keen and interested in teaching sharing but the younger ones want to come to where I'm at so we're having those discussions and dialogues how we can kind of make that work and we're making it work because I'm doing it and I've got people around me that are doing it but they're in real small pockets so it's like those dots at the moment that we see on the screen as far as the people doing the work but you know those are like myself who are putting themselves out there on the platform but there's a lot of people now behind the scenes a lot of that saying oh you've inspired me to check out my uncle Yaga people from all around the world now from you know Mexico to Chile saying you know I was trying to be something else you know, I'm you know I'm you know, I'm Irish and I've been going back and forth from Peru all these years and now I'm starting to realize that there's a wealth of you know, culture and history and stuff in you know, in the Celtic culture, which I'll talk about because I'm first generation born in the UK. I was conceived there so I come from that sold I've got so that comes all the way from Africa. So that comes from the UK. So what was going on in Cornwall, what was going on in worlds What was going on in Ireland in these ancient places? And I'm interested in that and then I find people say no because he was talking about Africa and he showed me the connections there and he talks about leprechauns and Pixies and he inspired me to go and check out my culture or my traditions and you know, it's great that we can travel the world and experience other cultures I'm into that but there's nothing more than kind of standard on your square holding around and you know, rapanui know where you come from. And that's a really powerful thing now for venting makes your ancestors proud. Those have gone past before and I've got this rich history and culture especially in the West Country where I'm from in the UK there's an embargo and every year my my soul when people like we don't have something that we're talking about our go to comb woman asked me to the druids and he told me what's going on. So why don't you pick your Zoo as cheap and down to Colombia or Peru or whoever it is, and that's great, but you know, check that out. So I know that my work is twofold on inspire my folks, my people to check out who they are and our cultures and history and because we've been directly distributed and deliberately disconnected from the soul on bowling smart people around the world have managed to check out their story, your story, because it's just one story. That's right.

Alex D. 41:07
Yeah, I it's funny, you're you were talking about cleany. And when I first brought up the map, you were kind of like, wait, wait, like, you know, that's not it, you know, we got to talk about gourmet mushrooms, we got to talk about soil and I had a similar experience. The first time I met kalindi, in 2000, spring 2014, at a psychedelic conference, and I met him and it was the first time I ever cultured a mushroom, which was an oyster mushroom. And I gave him a petri plate of this oyster mushroom on agar. And there's this other speaker there and it gave him also the petri plate and the other and I said, you know, they were like, Oh, what is this? And it was like, Oh, it's oyster mushroom. And then you know, the one guy was like, you know, wink wink, you know, like we're at a psychedelic conference is really sloppy, right? And I'm like, no, it's actually like actually oyster mushrooms. And he starts laughing He's like, you know, like, You can't be serious like any almost like do you want to give it back to me? And cleany was like whoa No, like this is important like don't just you know focus on philosophy like all mushrooms are sacred and and you know, I saw him years later I don't know if it was my culture or whatever but cleany was posting about grown oyster mushrooms in his backyard and he was like Yeah, we got to grow our own food we got to connect to the soil and like slosberg are fun and like a lot of young people love them and people all over the world but you know, we have to take into account all fungi and all biodiversity as well plants as well and you know, widen, widen the conversation so I just thought that was those funny route of cleany saying almost the same thing as you have like whoa there's more to this conversation right? And you know, philosophy is fun and that that history but we have to go kind of beyond that as well

Darren 43:01
find the reason to buy or you know, when I have learned started studying or panspermia, these hypotheses and theories and stuff and like so you're saying these aliens hitch rides on their UFOs you know a flight to when they got to Earth was buried in this big rock with the oceans stuff and they eventually made their way out onto the waters out of the oceans the seas and colonize this planet became the membrane a neurological pathway to keep order these organisms that eventually came out at a sort of communicating and we don't know this stuff, but we know about his iPhone we know how to use Bluetooth Wi Fi personal hotspots speak to people internationally and stuff like that. This is really important and that's not just psychedelic mushrooms. That's you know, this is this is really for me, this is really important man, this is really important not to know that to know how important plants are in our you know, in our side corner, we have this relationship with we breathe in, and we need to breathe out. We need to have a relationship with these guys. And these guys have that we they wouldn't exist without this organism that's we don't see it. We don't hear much from it unless, you know, when they pop up every now and then come out from a tree or wherever it is. And with all these mushrooms, but as we know there's this network that is there something that needs to be shared. And I'll do it in that in that ways. All my students are into technology and stuff, you know, into iPhones and androids. So I can use this alien kind of premise and oral tradition as the way I do. I'm telling you know, science, I'm giving them science and giving it to them in like a story form that makes it interesting and cool for them in some way or another. And then here we get to tell a story.

Lera 44:33
I love that you refer to mycology, like a technology. That's exactly what it is. And it's manifesting in so many different ways these days. I mean, that's one thing This podcast is really alluded to us. The applications are endless. Leave it alone, leave it in its nature. You know, it's technological, it's advanced for sure. But partnering with them, and you know, strategically working with them can open up a world of space. stainability right, so it's so great,

Darren 45:03
you know, clean day introducing all these ideas and concepts, you know, as organic technology. That's what it is. And you know, we're really familiar with synthetic technologies microphone, you know, speakers, it's best a mouth that is, you know, it's just like replications blueprints of stuff that, you know, comes from nature. So when we're able to speak with someone overseas, by way of a mobile phone or cellular phone, as you guys call it in the states and stuff, wherever you call it, that technology in that is like plasma or crystal technology that enables us to communicate around the world, and then get from the Congo, in a place where they will use inorganic technology version of it, because they've got plasma and crystals in their blood, which enables them to speak with people in other parts of places of the world on a continent, without leaving that tree, sitting underneath a tree and need to talk to someone in another part of the country on our part of the world. They use an organic technology, which some people say Juju is really, you know, but that's exactly what it is. And what's his name, who's the apple guy, again, Steve Jobs, he tells us, he said, and this is where all comes from. And let me just plugged the hole into the synthetic technology that we're all comfortable with. And it is something that I see as a tool. So tool, like a hammer can be used to build a house or I can hit you over the head of it and kill you doesn't make the tool bad. It makes what our intention. So I'm not against synthetic technology. I'm just like, if we use it as a tool and use it for the right things, we can do amazing things, but don't let it block you from you're no sovereign organic technology man, and how we learn and deal with that and interact with each other. So that's kind of the principle of my organic technology meets synthetic technology is not overseas, it just meets synthetic technology here.

Alex D. 46:53
Right, right before we started recording, we're talking about another map. And we're talking about Kew Gardens, which he said, kind of was one of your introductory kind of launch pads for mycology and your studies as well. And they do a global mushroom report. And one of the sections is on like new species that they're finding all over the world and they break it down by different continents and countries. And in the report 25% of fungi were found in Europe 35 in this 2017 35% were in Asia 12% were found in South America. 14% Oceana 9.5% in North America, and only 4% in Africa, and it just does not correlate with biodiversity. Right? I mean, the Congo is one of if not the most biodiverse places on the planet Earth and if 4% that just doesn't make any sense and then 12% South America with Amazon rainforest, like I don't picture Europe as being very biodiverse but but 25% it just shows and going back to this philosophy map, like all those dots covering the UK, it you know, are there that many species of philosophy there or are there that just that many mycologist and researchers and that's where the funding is and the money and is that the real map right and so you know, I'm I'm curious about your work and how how you're talking about how hard it is to sometimes talk to these older generations and some of these these countries and and what kind of kind of techniques are you using to kind of bridge the gap and not only talk to the young people that don't want anything to do with connection to their roots but then also the elders of a being you know, maybe protective or like not wanting to connect to other technologies to make information accessible or which sometimes is good or like it's good that you know, it is being protected but yeah, like I'm just interested in diving a little deeper on that and it seems like it's it's harder to break in. Yeah, it was terrible

Darren 49:30
to go back to move forward so i think you know, with the map what that really just showed me like it was highlighted that there's a lot of Europeans doing a lot of research and they just don't necessarily have the interest or the nuts to go to these places to see these things or explore this but there are obviously if we produce diamonds and gold is a richness in the soil that produces and I know that's all got to do mycelium as well and it may not be psychoactive but there's just still a gap a big gap in you know, and research that needs to be done. You Also that can be shared. But then I also agree I also think there's you know, it's part of the protection is like a spiritual myco logical ethno, you know, protection over the land because it's an oral tradition and what I found in no different to many other projects that I've been involved in from young people's projects, you know, anybody you know, where, you know, people just kind of jump in headfirst, like, are we gonna go there and is what we're gonna do. And this, you know, and not really considering what's going on. So a perfect example is Amazon via wasco, you know, and people just uprooting the vine all over the place. The vine takes a certain amount of time, I guess, to mature and prepare itself for, for human consumption, it's got this relationship, and I believe its relationship is with people from the Amazon region, like, I'm aware how nature works. Now, if we're just dealing with apples and oranges, then the amount of apples and oranges nature is going to provide us in this area is going to support the environment. It has a consciousness around how many oranges get picked, how many fall on the floor, how many go back into nurturing, you know, organically how many, how much of it comes through our waste our number ones and number twos, and how that cycle takes place. And it's calculating and processing all of that stuff. It may not calculate or process all this year, we had 2000 people flying from Europe to do Ayahuasca, you know, it was fun, I don't know the 10,000 people that might have been there who lived there and work with it. And nowadays, like 2000 people come in this week, another few 1000 people come in next month, up through in the vine not being replaced. That is something where I would like to think that those of us that are in the psychedelic conscious community would be conscious of that wouldn't be stripping nature, just to have this experience. That's why I really encourage people to say, what's on your doorstep, man, what's in your backyard, you know, in in the UK, we've got psychoactive plants, and I'm like, and we know little about them, you know, so go talk to the witches, go talk to the wizards, the warlocks, you know, and whatever, they vote in our landmass learn about the technologies there. And I think that's what's protected Africa. And because of the way it's set up in this secret societies, man, and not anybody, and everybody can go in there. So it's a bit kind of some type of protection. But we do need to find a way where we can cross pollinate and get that information over. So it's not looked upon as own. Here we go again, Africa doesn't produce anything, you know, you know, it's kind of like a stereotype like, the little, you know, cook. Yeah, anyway. So I find that frustrating at times, but I understand as to as to how do I do it? What am I doing, I'm going connected with people over there sharing our story, let them know that you've got people like me who are really interested in this stuff. And, you know, if, if, if I'm too old now to be initiated, if I'm too late to be, you know, how do I get this knowledge and information, and if it is working with the younger generation, because some of them have told me, for us to get the compost system in our village, and the elders are not, right now we're not happy with that, we just need to wait till they die. So they said we need to wait to where we their position. And we will bring in a conference here. And then they might be the ones to say, oh, we'll share some of you can come to land and check out the floor before now and the fangire. Now, earlier, we'll find out what's going on these last year come you're welcome to come and check it out. And we can start saying well look, these are we can sort out the soil in this area. I know in places, like we say back home in the Caribbean, our soil is so fertile, that you could spit and the food you ate yesterday will grow in the soil. Because I know Africa is the same but you know, they've been stripped of you know, processes and protocols and just maintaining the land. And you know, this, they've got you know, this thing of, you know, importing, and I don't think that they want to import but they've been educated to import a lot, which is disconnected them from the land. And then they've got this loads of you know, plastic stuff that they don't need. And then they end up burning it. And then they breathe in and all these toxic air and stuff. And I'm like, Yeah, what's going on. And there's so there's processing protocols. But again, I think working with the younger generation is definitely one point and I'll see it we know that back home in the UK, if you work with the younger generation, teach them recycling and composting, you know what happens, they go home and teach their parents because their parents didn't learn it in school. And the parents don't know about composting and recycling. So we teach the kids, our children go home and teach your parents then the parents come into school night What you do to my child, but I'm learning and they get excited about Oh, and we've seen the progress that we've made about young people. I know now what I want to do, man, I've got young people who are selling drugs, shooting people stabbing people who are like that and get some land, I want to grow land, grow food on my land, and or when I go back home to where my family my heritage is from, I'm going to actually take the time out to help my grandma, my grandpa, my uncles and Auntie's who were telling me to come out and help and as loud as board view wants to do and now I'm seeing the value of it. So it's those small things that are see taking place in my own space and place where I feel that over a period of time you will see more of that happening as we you know, as I like to say as we you know, spread the scores then we inoculate and colonize them why you know and and eventually we get this amazing fruit you know, you get this amazing new fruit. And I think it's just time we have time.

Alex D. 54:48
And I'm curious and this might not it's a complicated question, right? And I saw you brought up fungi and you know Giuliana for cheese work with fungi Foundation, and she made she had a talk yesterday and she was talking about a lot of this information is coming from oral tradition, right? A lot of mycology in so many countries is coming from oral tradition. And she brought up the good point. And it's a very complicated point of sometimes we she is given stories and she chooses not to share them, right or information about endangered species where she doesn't share the exact location or to protect these places, right? And that it's a complicated point of like, yeah, we want to discover more species in these continents or countries but at the same time, what is the ethical and moral choice of sharing them? Right? Because a lot of these places have a history of you know, Major extractivism and you know, colonization coming in and just destroying huge slice of beautiful biodiversity and natural landscapes and the people that live there. So how do you navigate that like if you're going into you know, a community and say, you know, when the younger people replace the elders and maybe they tell you a story or you know, I'm sure it's case by case but it's complicated it's like it's maybe important sometimes to share it but then it can also like the hammer you're just talking about it it's it's powerful information, but it can come possibly with some harm. And so I'm sure you've thought about this a million times but like, Where's your stance of what is important to share and not

Darren 56:43
so always use examples for example sake when we do when I work for this organization I used to work for and we wanted to set up a food growing initiative in the community they've been estates or what you might call projects in the United States, you know, so they've been nice, you know, housing estates and we've been given money by the government to develop a food grain initiative in this in this community. So most projects why they feel they failed is because they're like oh we've got the money we've got a build a garden in space in that you know in his community and they go in and and build it. And that's great from the outside looking in, but then the people inside are like what's going on? What are you doing Odin? Is that what we want? Is that what we need? Is that what we ask for? So our premise when we used to do our work was all right we've we've received the money but before we spend a penny we're going around knocking on every single resident store and finding out yo we've been given some money to develop a few grand initiative on it in your state. Now, is this something that you actually would like to do? If so, what would you like to see? How would you like to see it, you know, would you like to be involved in this so that's really important and engaging people saw that when you're developing things and initiatives that they feel part of it and they're involved and they're not actively just seen as an outsider, then what we're going to do is get a handful of the residents that would sit around the table with us we're not going to make decisions for this community without those people sitting around the table with us saying that's good that's not good we feel in that we're not feeling that that's really important as a part of the process and when you're deciding now we want to go and do studied or research in this area. Have you really engaged people from these places based on what are what is their perspective and then you respect what they say if they say you can share this don't share this you share what they say you can share and you don't share what they say you're not to share it's like just respect you know respect that like my mom says you know what happens in his house stays in his house and he's like yes ma'am. And you just like yeah you know, there's certain things that you know I don't want though your auntie and other people to know but you know, that's what goes on Danny and I just think it's, it's this building that relationship and I always use the example of because it's like, it's history repeating itself, you know, and I've seen it happen all the time. So that's why people think you're really you prophesize things that you see things like Niger cycles and everything happens in cycles and you see the same cycle happening again so I'll use two examples I use one the gold rush the diamond rush, you know any rush when you find a new resource and people just got jumping headfirst strip land strip people displace them move them around all for the benefit of developing I don't know a cell phone or the new PlayStation or wherever it is and not considering we find out afterwards and fair about blood diamonds and things like that way down the line but it's like little too late and it's pretty much you know, we've created the destructor you know the destruction always use the other example within the psychedelic community of history repeating itself. Maria Sabina perfect example you know, it's like and I say it's like it's weird because I probably wouldn't be here at telluride right now. If God wasn't even gonna do what he went and done in the way that he'd done it and you've got a respect that he took himself up and out there and done what he had to do but from what I understand he was asked to keep it quiet people on the low you know, and he ended up on the front of the magazine and then what happens is the whole world then starts to take their you know, their place and they're all in Mexico, you know, and you know, it affected Maria and her, her her family, her community and look at the impact of that. So are we gonna do the same thing again, though, is history gonna repeat itself and that's what I was feeling with this whole kind of, you know, cycle. Tourism happened with Iosco in particular is like every, every other month there's a new one. Oh cambo and we're gonna do this and we have a total five Meo DMT animal for these things don't get me wrong, but I'm about sustainability guys I'm about working with nature rather than against it, you know, and not pimping out the technology, you know, really utilizing it. And I think the way you could do that is by finding out what's grown on your in your backyard and man, because that's what mushroom taught me is that what you need is on your doorstep is great that you can travel here and there but find out what dandelions can do for you find out what these medicinal plants can use for you because I was taught prevention is better than cure. Therefore, if you learn about these clients, they may support you in just having a healthy lifestyle where you don't need to go back saying I need to sort out my depression and anxiety because I'm now having a midlife crisis. I'm feeling unhealthy, I can't get out of bed I'm smoking 40 cigarettes a day I'm addicted to coffee all these things that we now these pathological problems that psychoactive going to help us we we may not actually have had to have got there in the first place. If we just looked out the window and walk barefoot on our grass in our local forest and stuff like that in the first place, which we're now finding out can be really beneficial and therapeutic and stuff. And that's why they don't have anxiety depression and PTSD in the Congo or the Amazon and all that good stuff because they work with nature man and and technologies in that symbiotic they have that symbiotic relationship. So yeah, that's kind of what I teach and share about what we should be considering when we're going into new territories, all of that type of stuff.

Lera 1:01:32
This is beautiful. I'm curious to hear any thoughts from you or other people in your community about this vicious cycle. And this this gold rush that you talked about all these people flying down to get iosa and uprooting the planet faster than it can rejuvenate itself? How do you think do you think we, as a human species can break this cycle? Or is it inevitable and we will just oscillate between failing and getting better? And you know what I mean, it's just I don't know if we can break out of it. And if we can, like, what someone is like, why isn't invested as you What advice would you give to the mass of consciousness that we are

Darren 1:02:15
so yeah, I definitely don't have the answers. But you know, what I've learned is that you know, just one of the simple patterns that I've learned in life in my own life that I learned by studying I think like permaculture they talk about rhythms and patterns and cycles and you know every day that we revert to like that 24 hour cycle so I use I only use this as an example Groundhog Day One of my favorite fields Bill Murray. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but that's the example this cycle we live this daily cycle and then after a period of time he realized that he was just making the same mistakes and then after a while he wanted to enhance that day seems live in the same day the same cycle but he enhanced it by becoming better at things so he would do is a movie but he used the example of you know, playing the piano, he couldn't play the piano then every day we play the piano very better because he wanted us to play this piano to sing the song to this woman so she will fall in love with your kissing or whatever it was so we could break this cycle and that's the point I'm making that we do have these cycles these patterns that humans seem to be bloody doing time after time and we're more conscious now some of us by our guests there was some conscious people back in the days and were they able to raise it up slightly so for me it's like a cycle but it raises up like a spiral was a step yeah we got like we go through the same shit every day same shit different toilet but you got to kind of enhance that experience so you know it's like just learning from your mistakes and I think you know, it's sad and ashamed to say you know, I was actually talking about you know, Southwest miles when I first got into community my late teens and I was taught that you know, like we're in a shitty situation right now on planet earth but like it's meant to be like Earth story we're in this space we're in that phase of Earth story. And it's not always been in this phase it's just part of this is the this is the part of the TV show of the movie that we're facing you know, it's like a pendulum or cycle it's not always good but it's always bad it swings back around and you know Indian or Hindu they call that Kali Yuga we're in a destructive period of earth but then it moves around into the creative side and I tell people as true you know, because I learned from a compensate Alan that for brought in shape on this heat ago banana peels on you know, that has no use no service to us, you know, from you know, on a base level that actually can be used to regenerate and start things all over again. And it's like them what do we do with that compost when it's really we can grow more food, new food, more healthy food, if we choose to is what decisions do we make? So I think that Yeah, we are going around in the cycle. And I really did think I was really naive when I stepped into the psychedelic community like 12 years ago, I was like, where everybody's just like peace, love hugs, trees and loves nature. And this is going to be like I come from this community where like, it's, I'm hitting brick walls every day with the people to it like composting work, you know, so, but then I find out how we're making the same mistakes or errors. in this community too, it's like is the same shit. And then that's when I had to just relax martial arts the same, she's just humans doing what humans do. And some of us are gonna raise the bar. And then some of us know, like, let's teach the younger generation, some of us are going to be immediate with it. And then I'll come, I have a phrase that I learned from a pimp rapper, which was getting where you fit. And everyone's gonna have their roles, man. And that's I'm saying, so me, I'm a COVID, I want to teach young people, and some people want to do healing and ceremonies, that's not my thing, but leave them to it. And maybe all of these pieces, all of these fruit different, you know, species will support us in taking it to the next level on this cycle. And so I would like to think, and I'm just going to wait and see what we do as a species. And if not, just like the quarter steps, balances things out by taking things in and out. People always ask me when I share that in some presentations, do you think there's one so humans and I'm like, for sure, I've been inoculated, they've colonized me, and they're going to take me to the highest point to spread the spores to inoculate as many of you as possible before it's too late. And if it isn't, then I know what happens. I think nature just really good at governance. So it doesn't need us, you and me to be here to manage itself. But it we came out of that to be part of this class where we could tend to the lender support nature and doing its thing and if we're not doing a good job, then we're going to tend to cheat a bit and just feed something else that comes through so you know, that's that's how I feel the balance. We've I don't know if that answered the question. But that's kind of how I feel about the current cycle that we're in. And yeah, we're just in a place in space that we all come around, and there are blissful things on the horizon for us, but we've got to go through the shit. And that's why I talks a lot from talking to inspire this year, because the machine is the fertility that goes back into it to start new life again, man.

And as a God, we know this man. We call worm castings, gardeners, gold, and all these things that we know that from that cow dung, the fun guy grows minus like, she is date, man, I always tell people, you're just a big piece of shit. That's a compliment. Just really know that. Yeah. And once you set that thing, you start aligning yourself, because what I think as humans we put up we put ourselves at the top of this pyramid system. And that's why we think we own all of this. And that's why we made a lot of the mistakes that we made, but when you realize you're just a piece of shit, and you know your place in hierarchy, and that's probably the best place to be is a piece of shit. Then you start appreciating all the other shit around you. I really do this. So that's my philosophy.

Lera 1:07:28
So many good one liners in this podcast. Yeah.

Alex D. 1:07:34
Yeah, it just comes right back to composting. Yeah, to two steps forward one step back, try our best but in the end, we the whole human race gets composted we got some good things coming. So I hate to cut this short but I get to hop over to my next class and so final words for our audience where they can find you your work if they want to collaborate or etc.

Darren 1:08:01
Who am I well first and foremost on a big you guys out because I'm a big fan and to be to be on platforms now that are watching and I share my heroes on there and now I'm being invited the artists way I find it a privilege and an honor. So I really appreciate events like the telluride mushroom festival that pulls all these spores and those together to be in the same place in space. So first of all, you guys just keep doing what you're doing Keep up the good work, you are appreciated on the other side of the pond. And but as far as being able to reach out my name is Darren lebaron on the social media and the internet so it's Darren lebaron that's Darren da WENL e Baron ba r o That's the website and pretty much from there you've got links to all the YouTubes the Instagram and the Facebook pages and stuff like that. And yeah, that's how that's how I'm accessible and I deliver master classes in partnerships with different people around the world so if you want to support and learn how to code obey or you want to learn more about you know if no mycology as people keep telling me if no mycologist you know you're right if that's what you can call it a I'm just a big piece of shit in my eyes but I'm happy with that but if that's what it is, and you want to learn more about that you can find bits and pieces on our website and stuff like that

Lera 1:09:10
lovely and as always the shownotes will be available and until next time done I don't want this to be the last time that we speak to you on the platform so

Darren 1:09:20
next year on same time same place

Lera 1:09:23
there we go. Yeah if you ever in Austin you're welcome to show with us and stay with us and who knows maybe we'll put on a mushroom event.

Darren 1:09:34
Cool man I'll be I definitely need to get to the D self in I would love to

Lera 1:09:38
get the tip we need Yeah.

Darren 1:09:42
Yeah, man. Yeah, let's go obviously it will we will stay in touch. And as and when I come in that region, I'll give you a heads up.

Lera 1:09:49
Check out the show notes for more words of wisdom and other media by our wonderful friend. And thank you for listening and being part of our family.

Alex D. 1:09:59
Yeah, it was So good to see him ADO that was our second in person podcasts that we've ever done. We did one in Massachusetts with our bliss friend Chris. And you know, we we've been just doing we've been doing it online which everyone has has had to learn the skill of during COVID and so so good to just see our you know our guests in person for once and you know, hopefully we can see all of our listeners to at upcoming mushroom events and you know i for 1am missing that that in person connection so it's so good to tangibly love mushrooms together and we love each and every single one of you that's listening, sending a big virtual hug, and hopefully a physical hug soon. to each and every one of you. As always much love in the spores be with you.