Traditional Chinese Herbalism and Daoism with Mason Taylor
Alisa Nappa
Today we dive into the wealth of knowledge that is Mason Taylor, a thought leader, professional speaker, tonic herbalist and writer who inspires and teaches people to once again become enchanted with their body, life and health. Having spent over 15,000 hours studying the field of health and transformation, and Traditional Chinese Herbalism and Daoism, we dive deep into not only herbs and mushrooms but greater philosophies of ways of living.
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TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker 0:12
Welcome, welcome. You are listening to the mushroom revival podcast. I'm your host, Alex Dora. And we are absolutely obsessed with the wild and wacky world of mushrooms and fungi. We bring on guests from all around the world to geek out with us and go down the mysterious rabbit hole of what the heck are fungi mushrooms up to? And what are these beautiful, brilliant people around the globe? geeking out about what what are their lives up to? How is this symbiosis going with mushrooms? And how can we inspire the planet to form a greater symbiosis with mushrooms and fungi? So we got Mason Taylor, coming in from Australia today to chat was all about mushrooms and beyond the tonic herbs and, you know, running running a mushroom and herb business and we're going to talk about a lot more things. So Mason, how you doing, man? Awesome, Alex. Yeah, having a great morning over here. And yeah, I'm like, pretty stoked to be chatting to you nerding out, especially how Yeah, I'm one that has the experience of running a company and that splicing of that wild world of interdimensional world of mushrooms and then what it takes to actually grounded into reality.
Unknown Speaker 1:27
It's hard. Yeah, it's it's hard. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I would, I would pick this over cubicle desk job any day of the week for sure. And I've been I've been watching your videos and following your work for so many years. And you're a big inspiration. You're a wealth of knowledge and people who don't know you. Who are you? What are you up to? Yeah, Mason Taylor. I'm over in the grew up in Sydney, Australia. And now I'm in Byron Bay, and like easterly, most easterly point of Australia here. I started super feast back in 2011. So I was right in that the middle of that bat. That's a diving into the deep end scallywag health scene. And, you know, came out of university after studying international business, and then commerce just absolutely, like, got activated. During that time.
Unknown Speaker 2:22
I walked out of university, and it was just like, You know what, I just feel like you just taught me exactly how that you create drones for a factory line. And nothing has ever given me more like at that time, I was really feeling like the opposition to that, that that egoic overreach of institutions and how in the right, they felt to dominate people's capacity to actually engage in their own destiny. So that was when leaving university I was like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be a force to bring harmony to what you're doing in the world. And that's literally I'd spent my last year in uni studying Taoism. And Tao was tonic herbalism, I was doing the whole, who just started getting into the whole cleansing thing at that point, and you know, going and getting my water from the mountains and only, you know, not allowing a municipal water to touch my body and just kind of like rubbery, you know, nothing changed, but right in the heart.
Unknown Speaker 3:15
And then Yep, started, like talking to my mom. And this is like, I just can't work for anyone. I just I was like, I was like, I just can't have anyone else's intention in my world or anyone else's. I can't work for anyone else's creation. It's enough being in this society and operating within it. So she was just like, oh, even though I'd studied business, I had no idea. Like, I didn't have a business plan or anything. But she was like, Yeah, let's go and go into the super foods and herbs and stuff. And she gave me the 20k to kind of get that set up and started in her spare room. And then from there, I just, I really didn't think that there was any room for mushrooms in the market back then just because I was looking at like George Lamoreaux and Ron Teegarden at the time, and there was no one really doing it in Australia, like in a in a dedicated way. I just this is how brilliant I am as a businessman, I was just like, there's no room for mushrooms. And and so I just didn't really do it too hard. And then at that point, I went to the markets after my mum had a stroke, and I was like, I actually have to make this business work because financially I'm going to have to support her one day. And so I was like, alright, I'll go give this a good whack went to the markets in Sydney and started and people would come up to me. Mums would come up and be like, oh, you know, if I take Spirulina and give it to my family, will this be you know, you know, what, will you okay? This will help we get sick all the time. And I was like off gosh, like, kind of, I think, you know, you're gonna have to go, I was like going gonna go into Lancome National Park and looked at this mushroom and then and then they're like, No, do it. And I was like, Okay, well, how are you gonna go and order this from the States? And they're like, how about you just get me reishi and I was like, oh, okay, that already knew exactly. I'd been ordering them for myself for three years. At that point. I knew exactly. The type of mushroom and
Unknown Speaker 5:00
eat out mushroom from China exactly how to get them and where to get them.
Unknown Speaker 5:05
And so I just kind of started from that, this, the mums and you know, about all types of people at the markets just wanting to effectively engage with their body and protect, you know, what we call we'll talk about later protect their treasures and you know, be really well supported. So they can focus on what matters and not be crossing their fingers. That's basically a super beast whole thing is like I, I really felt for the first time in when I was 14, like me crossing my fingers that my parents didn't become just a statistic. And I was like, Oh, so that's really like,
Unknown Speaker 5:37
that's not even not inspiring, it's such an affront to
Unknown Speaker 5:42
what it is to be a human to be in that place. And it's so and I remember when I was in my early 20s, and having that feeling, strike me that I was starting to go down that path of apathy in terms of my body, and then feeling that choice, you know, the moat, you know, as we have multiple times in our lives, the fork in the road, I was like, I'm gonna choose to engage. And then you know, the magic opens up from that, that's the whole core source, or seed idea behind super feast is supporting people in those in those choices, and engaging really, really powerfully in in that I, like, you know, supporting the body preventing anything from from happening. And
Unknown Speaker 6:20
because of that, the mushrooms and the tonic herbs, just, you know, just like couldn't stop getting into super face. And then slowly started, you know, ball started rolling, they started mushrooming from there, and it got to the point where we caught this wave that happened in this mushroom boom, that happened in America, I happen to have been operating for five years when that happened.
Unknown Speaker 6:41
I moved up to Byron Bay into a double garage operation and just like, you know, tripled, quadrupled, you know, then to the point now, where we're like a super grown up and legitimate mushroom and tonic VSAN Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 6:58
And now I've got two kids here, and me and my wife, tiny run the business for ages. She's back off teaching yoga and Dallas energetics and doing belly rubs. Its chin, it's on Dallas, abdominal massage. And yeah, we're just bringing up our one year old and our six year old and because I continue to, you know, lean into running, running a company. And yeah, got a moped in the states now have been for two years. Yeah, that's that's kind of a snapshot of where, you know, there's a lot more there. But yeah, that's a snapshot.
Unknown Speaker 7:30
And how's your, How's your mom doing now? Is she still alive? Yeah, she's alive. So yeah, we are 11 years post her is actually an aneurysm that, and so she's still 24 hour care. I've actually just six months ago moved her up here from from Sydney. And so that was that's been it's been a big year, in that sense. And, yeah, we're going really well.
Unknown Speaker 7:53
We are coming up to that point where her insurance money rent income, you know, kind of runs out. So that's kind of put a firecracker up my ass in terms of like, making sure that my business is like, super sustainable, but in a place of cultivation, I guess is how I like to how I like yeah, so that, but she's, she's like, she's back engaged with this, like incredible neuro neurophysiologists we've got classical Chinese medicine going down, we've got some really great, like, nervous system based psychology going on for her to like, you know, for someone that's that disabled and has like, you know, aphasia can't talk to the brain damage atrophy on the right side, where, like, you know, she's hammering along, at the moment, and getting some like, pretty significant healing, like, it's already a miracle, but with that grade of, like, aneurysm that she had taking off half of us, you know, nearly half of us down to, like, stop her from passing away to like, the point now where she's not degenerating, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wild.
Unknown Speaker 8:51
Yeah, and even, you know, it's,
Unknown Speaker 8:55
it's, it's a wild part of growing up, and, you know, for for so many years for for most people, they have their parents take care of them. And then you reach a certain age where you have your own kids and so you're, you're a dad, or you're, you're a mom to
Unknown Speaker 9:10
New humans, but then you reach an age where were your parents or parents, you know, start degenerating, and then you're, you're taking care of two generations and yourself through it, though, you can't pour from an empty cup. And so, yeah, and like, why else would we,
Unknown Speaker 9:27
you know, start a business other than to take care of our loved ones. You know, for me, it's like family, families, everything and our loved ones and if we can't take care of them, what are we doing, you know, so So that's, that's cool that you have created a future for yourself that you can take care of three generations, including yourself and and have a family take care of your family. And so that's that's really cool. Um, I'm curious as well, like, did you personally have health problems? Most people that I know that have gotten
Unknown Speaker 10:00
And into herbs and you know, TCM tonic. Taoists. Tonic herbalism. You know, like, they started with their own health problems and Western medicine didn't work for them. And so they're like, Alright, I got, let's, let's go to the herbs like, you know, what, what was your intro from business to herbs? Yeah, it wasn't chronic, but um, like, from when I was like 19 or 20, I remember kind of just having problems with flat the G. And it wasn't like, I always thought it was exhaustion, but it was just actually like, not having the kinetic chi to like, get me animated throughout the days, but it was super disheartening to get to two or three o'clock and literally not have anything now I look in retrospect, it's really frustrating to not have literally what it takes to like, move, thought, metabolize, move emotion and just become sluggish. You know, I'm like, I'm a young guy here. And I was I was full of essence and you know, full of potential, but I was just constantly having like that, that was like a chronic thing, chronic lack of vitality and, and I'd get little fungal things going on. And so when I was in the middle of a trip in South America, and that lethargy was stopping me from, you know, I'd be like, No, I'm going to not go do this thing that's like, an incredible one to like, once in a lifetime opportunity, because I'm just too tired. And not to do something like, you know, super, I look back, even though like, I look back a day later, and be like, I'm really uninspired by that decision. So became, I was on a bus in Bolivia. And I was really thinking about that. And then how over the years, I tried to go to like some naturopaths I've never really had to go to, you know, went to my family doctor and stuff like that was like a teenager, and they're like, oh, whatever, this is just, you know, what it's like, and I was just like, the the bugbear about that was so intense. For me, I've like I was really quite sensitive to comments like that, in the beginning, done with so much. dictation of my word is final, and you can really take it that there's nothing wrong here rather than slacking that, you know, like, oh, like, you know, like bringing, bringing some wind between the wings of like, going like, yeah, I really think you should follow that curiosity, because obviously, I don't have everything, you know, I was like, I was like, This is so inappropriate. And as I would go along, I would find the feeling of invasiveness around people in places of authority talking to me in that manner. And likewise, the fact that I hadn't been set up to not let that person or that institution or that doctor, like completely enter into my space. And like me, like, I didn't have agency around when I when they said it, I was like, okay, and that as well it's in that all hit me at once when I was in South America, on a bus stop in a high Savannah going along. And I really, I felt my body and I felt all these little how, how much when I got to these crossroads all the time, and I just be like, frustrated and windy. And you know, it'd be better to just like slink back onto the Alright, well, I'll maybe go and find a naturopath now, or maybe I'll go find Chinese medicine practitioner, it was still going towards the right direction, but it was still not coming from a real place where it was coming from my center, and that I was engaged and I was willing to take responsibility for it, it really is. And that's what that's where I was at, I was feeling tired, and I had some immune stuff going on, I was getting sick. And I and I was like, I dropped into my body. And the whole it was like through was like super psychedelic in the visual. It was just like, here's the his two parts. And I'm and you're always going to have to walk that path of like work working with practitioners or an institution in some manner, that's a part of it and forming relationships, but I felt how much of a relationship it was with it not an authority. I was like, Oh my gosh, I can. And then I felt my own authority. And that's, that's continued to be a
Unknown Speaker 13:45
big,
Unknown Speaker 13:46
fun, difficult journey for me to like, acknowledge my own authority in my, in my own life, or even in my own business and,
Unknown Speaker 13:55
but I was like, Oh, I'm going to choose that. And I chose it with such conviction. It was like, you know, every now and then I think they only get like two or three in life where you've got that much. You completely change your entire life, like at the in an instant. And that was one of them. And from that day forward, I was like, Alright, that's it. I mean, I'm engaged and I'm gonna make that choice to as much as I can. I have
Unknown Speaker 14:22
not cross my fingers and hope that things don't go wrong. Yeah, that's when I got back and I just don't like got back up a few months later. But from that moment, I was meeting Yogi's on the road, you know, in South America, I was meeting breathwork practitioners and I was still like having fun but you know, when like, all of a sudden like I'd go to South America and even though I got back to Australia and became essentially a raw foodist like, I was like eating meat for that last little bit but I was like sensing the I was going towards you know, like meat that was grown in this like into now find like an inspiring way and Patagonia rather than meats that were like you know, coming off the factory line and started learning about that. It was just incredible. You know, then
Unknown Speaker 15:00
know what it's like? No, it's incredible when that
Unknown Speaker 15:02
that all starts hitting you, even though I knew nothing of what I knew now back then. So yeah, and then I got back did the whole roll through this thing and, you know, cleanse, cleanse, cleansing the body a lot. And just completely that was it, I was off, I was already, you know, kind of galavanting around the world and just been the bag doing the Vagabond thing and
Unknown Speaker 15:20
couldn't connect with any of my schoolmates, or any anything like that back then. And then when I got back and went into that, kind of like, you know, that extreme health world and longevity world, and, you know, likewise, the conspiracy world that comes along with that was it, I went off on that, on that tangent, but yeah, that was it. And that's pretty significant. Like, I told I was talking a few people about it the other day that you can't underestimate, like, what happens if you don't have the kinetic energy of a chi or the vitality to like, execute outside of what the things that you have to do in life, you need to be able to have, you know, have the ability to just go and do what's necessary to keep the wheels turning, but then to not have anything access to go and do anything that's inspirational and the extra extra curricular activity. That's actually, I mean, I'm sure the West will at some point that needs a formal diagnosis is because it's so it's stability, and stability. And it's the difference between someone going, Ah, I'm gonna like pull my socks up, and, you know, do the do the bloody work that I need to do it, it's, it doesn't, it's not the most inspiring thing ever. But then I've got a little bit of leftover energy to go and do the inspiring thing and start cultivating a sense of like, who I am. And I've had people consistently, when we're talking about particular, like chi herbs be like, the level of support my body got just around energy levels was the difference between me just completely going and collapsing versus me going, Oh, my gosh, I have, I don't have to willpower, and I've got the energy to go and study or, you know, have a little side business and grow it. And it completely changed the trajectory of my life, which is what I like about these herbs, or these simple practices, just how supportive they are the one and 2%. And that's what and that's where I danesco, essentially what I've kind of Yeah, that's what I did, as soon as I, I was so sensitive, when I'm getting into the herbs and the spring water, and I could measure it, like that's an extra 3% energy for the day. And it was great.
Unknown Speaker 17:19
This is kind of opening many Pandora's boxes right now. But
Unknown Speaker 17:24
one thing that I've heard in interviews, and even just, you know, you briefly touched upon it is this resistance to an allopathic approach, which is like, you have a symptom, you pick a drug or an herb or something, to fix that symptom, right. And it's very, like, A plus B equals C or, you know, it's it's very linear thinking, and it doesn't take in a holistic approach. And even like,
Unknown Speaker 17:52
you know, something that I've been, I've been talking to my employer, Lisa about a lot is, you know, she's half Italian. And like the difference between even, like culture in the United States or a lot of United States versus like, you know, it's a broad generalization, but like, a lot of Europe is, yeah, maybe, maybe in the US, like, we drink a lot of coffee. But the way we drink coffee, most people is like, very much a drug and very much like, I'm going to drink this so I can go go go and maybe people are sipping it while they're like rushing to a meeting. But like, in Europe and broad generalization, it's like yeah, I'm going to sit outside on this little table and people watch and like enjoy my coffee. And this is and it's like, the amount of relaxation and the amount of like, it's not the herbs or it's not the drug or it's not the thing it's how you use it as well and the whole lifestyle and that's like a big difference between you know, even like modern Western herbalism versus Taoist tonic herbalism or TCM it's like it's not just the herbs right it's the it's a whole philosophy as well as a way of living that I think is so important and it's it's hard to having a business as well selling them and it's like people just want the drug or like they want the quick
Unknown Speaker 19:14
the quick solution and they don't want to change their lifestyle or they don't want to be told like you know like
Unknown Speaker 19:21
how would you use it in your in your life they just want like the quick fix right? So to start off you know opening the can of worms of like TCM in Dallas tonic herbalism that we could talk for the next 30 hours and barely scratched the surface but to start what what is the main difference between Dallas or Taoist tonic herbalism and TCM to start out with? Oh, yeah, okay. Oh, no, yeah, I will try and be succinct as possible. It's a big task efficient, yes. Very complex. It's huge. And I And to the extent where I'm you know, I consider myself you know, I'm I love it.
Unknown Speaker 20:01
Whether it's TCM or Taoism, or that, you know, the classical model the, you know, the shamanic models, I'm such a fan that I'm actively not a practitioner. And I'm that's because I want to stay objectively gravitating towards those forms of this, you know, this Chinese model of health that is I see objectively going to be clinically effective, and I and so that's why that's where I come from. And it leads me to like being on some of the top TCM podcasts talking about this. And it's like that, acknowledging the fact that the TCM was a crook creation
Unknown Speaker 20:39
of the 50s, and mounts of Dong, alike, and his cronies created a westernized and scalable version of Chinese,
Unknown Speaker 20:50
the Chinese healing healing arts and cut out the Spirit because the spirits too heavy to scale, because you need such accountability from the teacher to know that you have the capacity to sense your way through the various transitions, the body doesn't, you know, when someone comes up to you and goes, I've got this symptom, that you'd never treat that symptom without going into a deep dive into yin yang whooshing, which is the Yin, Yang, five transitions, and literally be able to play around within the water of the body, the wood of the body, and it becomes very obvious in the shamanic sense that you can see where someone is like,
Unknown Speaker 21:30
like corrupting in something, you know, let's just say there's like liver stagnation, and it's like, okay, liver stagnation, all of the signs, you know, yes. Upholstered and tongue didn't? Yes, it's clearly liver stagnation. Oh, my God, and you get the dopamine hit as a practitioner, because you're like, yeah, there it is. And there's like only several types, and it's classified into this type of liver stagnation or this type of liver segmentation. Yeah, great. Great, great, great. And what do I treat? And you're all like, Beep boop, boop. In your head, what do I treat? How do I? Okay, now, Austin, this is where modern practitioners feel really, you know, really incredible. They're like, Okay, now you break it down into two, right? So is this really personalized? This isn't like, this isn't like modern medicine. Okay, two different types. There it is. And you put them into a nice little box, and you take them through a nice little treatment. And it's, again, you've mentally you've taken, you've been led by a symptom, you might have tracked it back, like a smidge. But in the context of the symptom, you didn't throw the symptom out altogether. And most of the time, the symptom, you're one of the symptoms that's going to give you a clue is a Western diagnosis. The fact that Western diagnosis like chronic fatigue, a lot of people come and ask me about like, I've been chronic fatigue is something I've got like what do I do from, you know, from? TCM or CCM, classical Chinese? What do I do and like you, but you have to understand chronic fatigue doesn't exist in this in this world. And where it does in, in western medicine and the tropics, and it's very cool to have those diagnoses. TCM acknowledges them because TCM is a colonized and scalable version of you know, of Taoism, classical Taoism. And it's not a bad thing. I think it's been great to get this, you know, get this these Chinese healing arts out there into the world. So, when you when you when you start considering that you you see why there's a renaissance, at the moment of people going back to the shamanic roots of Chinese, you know, of Taoism, especially, especially, and, essentially, the way I was explaining it to this real to this guy on this podcast the other day, a Chinese medicine podcast, where he was like, I just don't understand what you mean by colonization, like, you know, you can't be colonized, it's, you know, it's Chinese. TCM is amazing. And, you know, it's like, getting it out there even in its current form. And I'm like, Yeah, I was like, the thing is, you got to understand is, even though it's really good, and the university education is really good, and it's getting it out there more than any faster than we ever could. You're not the one who, who's like you're a good practitioner who's engaged in studying like, you know, the nation. You don't understand what it's like out there. When you're a disillusioned you when you're disillusioned with modern medicine, and your auto immune disease just keeps on up Bungie, tried to find even good naturopath and understand how to really holistically treat like CO infections, even with autoimmunity. So they go and try Chinese, you know, the Chinese practitioner, or it's like a TCM practitioner, and then it's ineffective. And I was like, it's, it's, do you understand how disheartening it is what you know, when you when you go and do the right thing, and you find one of these practitioners and they're like, oh,
Unknown Speaker 24:37
it's I actually can't treat those like, you know, let's like there's, you know, the thing of the big diseases, you know, like that those diagnoses, first of all, don't exist within the Dow, they but it does exist in terms of its own universe and within yin yang whooshing. But these practitioners are going either trying to treat things and if I can't treat that big diagnosis, but I'm going to just help try and
Unknown Speaker 25:00
support your body and see if we can get you over the line. So with big cross fingers that the university has told them, you know, you will be able to do this poor, you need to then refer this to Western medicine because you don't have the capacity to do this with a Taoist approach or a TCM approach. And it's just so it's inappropriate, it's really nice for everyone to remember that there is a complete system that has the capacity to treat anything and everything. As long as you're able to allow your practitioner to go outside any kind of Western diagnosis, it's a good practitioner will be able to go step it there because their shaman, they should be able to step into the world of your western diagnose, and somebody's like, oh, well, yeah, like, that's a really great clues for me. And that's, I'm really getting a lot from that. And then they need to be able to let that go. And then dive into the, you know, say the five elements is easy to say, with intent. So intention based healing is essentially when you go back to the roots of the classical texts of folk Taoism, or classical Chinese healing, it is all about the intent. And so at that point, you're you can't help but look forward, you're not looking for what's wrong, you're looking at, like, what's the intention of this organ and where it wants to go. And so you can actually start getting to the point where you can sense whether the breakdown that is occurring is something, you know, somewhat positive, because the intention of the organ and its evolution and potentiation has hit a snag in another organ, not having the essence or the Chi to be able to like support the upgrade that the heart is going through and expressing Shen. So it's like, it's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with you, you just didn't have what it took to like, go through this initiation, or sometimes it is you can feel the intent of like, I'm just trying to exist here and get through life. But that's, and that's the intention. So but I don't know why it keeps on going wrong. And then you dive into the body and you go, yes, we're getting all these liver stagnation.
Unknown Speaker 26:54
symptomology. And you go through and you're like, Okay, it's stagnant. Because it's, you know, because because it's there, that's all it's, it's, it's too damp in there, the woods to damp, why is the wood to dab, and it's literally needs to be this easy. And that needs, you need to be able to talk about it in this manner. Because in the home, when you think about scaling, sovereign healing modalities to the world, it literally needs to be like, Oh, would debt too much water is too much water coming from kidney? Why is there too much water, you know, here and you need to be able to feel it and feel it, they get it and and that paints us and that paints such a picture is too much yang energy, it's evaporating the water too fast, but it's also not supplementing, so you know, what's coming is a water deficiency. So you go, right, where is this coming from, and then you go and treat that. And that because it's something is a part of a wheel of, of elements. All of a sudden, there's no end point to that, that healing modality, the only thing is, and the intention of the practitioner should be able to give you insights about why that occurred. Your basic lifestyle in the sense of you're, you're trying to do lots of Yang things at 3pm. In the afternoon, for instance, when you are you know, when and that's that's completely taking you off course. And that's one of the reasons if you do that, you're gonna get a better sense of what it is to start cultivating better, you know, better Yeah, and so on and so forth, to try and try and get this into like, five or 10 minute little chat as you like, rather than going into 30 minutes is difficult. But that's kind of like, I think that's the important thing for people to understand and why coffee table books about Taoism. And understanding the difference between classical
Unknown Speaker 28:42
classical Chinese modalities versus modern, traditional TCM modalities. It's really nice to remember that yeah, we're going through a re integration cycle, optimistic and the magic. And likewise, more of those Yang authoritarian, authoritarian organizational aspects of the psyche of Chinese Chinese medicine, so that it can continue to scale out there into the world, but actually be effective. And that's the thing I think we're all sick of it not being effective, but it's important not to like pull. So reject TCM and just remember, it's got it's got unintegrated parts to it, but we wouldn't have gotten can you look at what it's done to the Western world. It's insane like that how we're all like, oh, acupuncture, cool, whatever you like, no, no, but like, acupuncture is so wild, as a as a modality. And most doctors in the western world would be like, oh, yeah, that's got some benefits. Like
Unknown Speaker 29:41
how did we do that? You guys. You guys are skeptical about everything. It's really like snuck under the radar. And now the that the shamanic aspect and the intention based aspect of that, of that modality is being restored because the practitioners want to be effect
Unknown Speaker 30:00
div. And so, you know, now we're on the inside of valid?
Unknown Speaker 30:06
Well, I have 8 trillion follow up questions for that. But I think,
Unknown Speaker 30:11
you know, you're talking about, like, the wood being wet. And you know, you're talking about five element theory.
Unknown Speaker 30:18
I'm guessing 99% of people listening to this have no idea what you're talking about, and like, are picturing actual wood being wet. So can you let's start with, you know, the
Unknown Speaker 30:30
five element theory, and as simplified as you can make that because it's extraordinary. It's very complex. But um, let's start there of like, what is the five element theory. So, without understanding that, you know, there's like, if we just bring it down to the basic understanding of chi and health within within that, like, say, we'd go back and study the classics of Chinese medicine. And say that you can classify chi the ever changing
Unknown Speaker 31:03
whether it's kinetic, or like, it's no, it's difficult to get in, get in and really describe what that what that life force is. But one thing that it is doing is it's constantly transitioning, and changing. And the can get it, you know, you can knock it down to basic classifications of Yin Yin and Yang formations of chi. But it's always changing. And the medicine has been based on understanding what stage of transition that the chi is in whether it's, you know, young is the is the first. And it's important here, because what what TCM, doesn't really have is an acknowledgement of what's called Chi qua, which is the stage of change between yin and yang, or Yang to Yin. And
Unknown Speaker 31:48
that's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like trying to try and focus on like healing the water of a river rather than going up as it needs to make this transition over this fall, as you know, within dammed up. And so we need to go and make sure that it can easily transfer transition, rather than trying to focus on the river itself.
Unknown Speaker 32:07
So that's all it is, is into young and young tn. So that's what all practitioners just like practicing classically, they're only going to be focused on that. And to make it just a smidge more effective. But trying to keep it as simple as you possibly can without going complex that it goes beyond the the patient's capacity to understand his going into whooshing, which is the five transition or five elements just to kind of highlight Okay, cool. Yes, it's all yin to Yang and Yang Tian chi. But when it's going through the fire, elements of the body, or you know, the these organs of the body, we can see, through feeling of meditating on it and sensing, there's a quality of fire so you can feel there's a quality of the ying yang of fire and quality of the Yin fire. And you can see to keep fire of the say, it's like it's hot fire. That's why it's important to talk about the heart. And yes, you most practitioners will be able to think about the physical heart. But when you're in Union whooshing and basic diagnosis and basic terms of like trying to figure out what's going on for someone, you need to think about it as Hearthfire. So don't say heart and don't think about it as the heart physical organ, think about as hot fire, which includes the physical logon.
Unknown Speaker 33:21
And then from there, you can go in and you can get a sense of fire going, Okay, well, if it's if it's to Yang, and it's and it's raging, and you can set sense that there's, like, you know, how do you feel if your home has like fire that you can't keep down and you and you start to think about that metaphorically, and you can feel the type of anxiousness that you feel in that in that moment. Versus when you when you're trying to get the fire of your of your in your hearth of your home, like up to take a house or to granite smoking out and you can feel the anxiousness because you're like, oh, my gosh, I need I need the warmth here. Otherwise, I can't. I'm not comfortable like you can. It's like, it's very quickly you're like, oh, and so when someone asks me like, Oh, I'm anxious, what should I take? I'm like, Oh,
Unknown Speaker 34:07
this is where practitioners are so amazing to help you facilitate that if you don't, and to have this have you if you don't have this, this context. Likewise, there's like someone's feeling that that anxiousness and takes Fire, fire, supporting herbs,
Unknown Speaker 34:26
but their heart that if you really dig in a little bit, the heart fire is actually quite regulated. It's the fact that you go over to the feeling of soil, spleen soil, and the soil isn't there to be able to pack up and build walls and build boundaries and manifest structure into reality. So you keep on going to express your spirit, which is the the your Shen your spirit expresses when the the heart, heart fire chi is flowing smoothly. What it is, it's the fact
Unknown Speaker 35:00
You keep on expressing it and you gotta like it's like having a hole in the bucket to a certain extent you can't actually capture it and build like a temple around around it and you can't see you're not seeing the manifestation. So you know, you're in an unsustainable cycle that comes with incredible anxiousness. But a particular type of anxiousness like Why aren't you building art, it's because you're not digesting, everything that's going on around you, you're distracted by everything around you that you're not digesting your vision. And what's what's beautiful to use solely and going right, I'm going to build just based off this spiritual vision that I have, and I'm going to do so very practically. And I'm going to choose what dumb building first I'm going to choose. And here's the boundaries, what I want to bond with. That's a very particular type of anxiousness. There, so and you can go really deep in like real hairy diagnoses, and like really hairy Western diagnoses. And even though maybe it's gotten into deeper layers, and it's penetrated particular levels of the body that it's harder to treat, it's still going to be in the simplicity of understanding, there's something chronic going on, but within the Yin Yang whooshing framework of like water and wood. And the beautiful part about that is once you capture it, it all, it automatically brings to light, the very practical things you're doing in your life. So the very practical herbals that are going to be appropriate for you supporting you, and also the emotion, you can't not feel the emotion when you hit that place where it's just like, oh my gosh, this is all slain soil. And it's like,
Unknown Speaker 36:39
you can see what you're going to have to do now. And it's like, oh, my gosh, I do. Does that make it easier to do? No, but it's that that's I guess that's the difference there. And that's the that's the beautiful thing about that yin yang whooshing and from the practitioner, they don't know what's going on in your life. They just know the transition between Yang Yin Yang to Yin isn't isn't happening here. Gosh, why we know why. Why is that and we pull on that we know the emotions attached to that organ, we know that, you know, we know the time of day that that organ has the most cheek going through it. So you bring in all these clues. But in western medicine, even you know, this is a lost. This is a lost skill that Steven buehner is especially brought back if you look at the secret teachings. He's great. Yeah. Gosh, I mean, I mean, I'm gonna stop crying for it's not gonna just save on viewers. There's gonna be there's gonna
Unknown Speaker 37:29
it's gonna, we're gonna we're gonna go in love some beautiful directions, my business would never be what it is. Yeah, no, I had Lyme. And he was my main inspiration. He's like, the main wealth of knowledge for that he's books are incredible. Oh, he's books are incredible. Even just denoting his ability to balance left and right brain function at the same time within practice. And that's the exact same thing that it is within maybe when I'm when I say shamanism, you feel that I'm talking about right brain activity, and I am a lot and that's, that has been excessive. And as we've come to civilization, and we've, you know, we've come like, you know, I don't know this person, I don't live in the same village of this person, I need to engage my left brain to actually start like analyzing, you know, what's going on? What are they not telling me, you know, like that. And so I think that's a really beautiful thing. But that's what it's one thing to be able to go and ask all these questions, you know, like, ask the 10,000 questions through the pulse through the tongue, really get a mental picture of what's wrong in this person. But as Steven buna talks about a lot is it as you're doing that, to be able to continue to allow yourself to be perceiving and taking in the information that's in the environment and take it up through the heart, perceptive organ system and have that real objective skill, where you're sensing and feeling, cross, crossing that over with everything that you're picking up intellectually, and everything that your training has taught you.
Unknown Speaker 38:57
sending that information from the heart up into the brain and going like everyone thinks it's intuition or magic, it's not, it's a very measurable, perceptive capacity that, you know, it's something you know, that's obviously, if it's a skill worth cultivating, it's very, it's a, it's a bit of a long journey to get your own crap out of the way and not project your own crap as a practitioner on to the person and beliefs. That's for the left brain where you have to be really strong and you know, sometimes your beliefs need to do you need to do need to get asserted in that good impure perception. And you can just feel you can sometimes just everything just comes together and you just track past everything that you thought it was going to be and you land somewhere within the liver and that a particular herb presents itself and you're like, wow, like, I need to not just follow that blindly. But I need to ask some questions, what what's going on here? What's going on there? And every now and then, I've experienced that but more so I've experienced practitioners who have the reengaged with the classics, in their in their Chinese practice, and they have that ability that like magic to do
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Just doing pulse and going through the journey of your fire and feeling, you know, sensing your body and sensing its intention and then going
Unknown Speaker 40:09
to tell me tell me about your vision, like what you're visioning for your life right now. Oh, gosh, yeah. Like, it's really I'm the vision is so strong, and I'm just so confused about how to do it. And like magic, they've cracked through all of that stuff. And they've found they've opened up this Pandora's box to what's really going on.
Unknown Speaker 40:29
That's kind of like that's, that's what the simplicity of yin yang whooshing, and likewise, in western herbalism, what
Unknown Speaker 40:37
Steven buehner many other herbalists are bringing a restoration back to that classical aspect, because as you you know, as you've kind of alluded to, you know, like, in western, I was so disillusioned in my early 20s, trying to find solutions to my symptoms, which were just like, I want to be a badass elder. That was literally all I was concerned about, I didn't care about treating the lethargy, I just wanted to feel like I had a good chance to be
Unknown Speaker 41:05
maybe a grandfather, or great grandfather that had physical ability, and wasn't susceptible to projecting my unresolved crap onto my kids or to younger generations, that really scared me. Because it's happens a lot. You can feel a new kind of you got to respect your elders. And it's like, I do that also, what are we doing here? A lot of the, you know, a lot of the older people here, what really struck me and before I started super face, the other aspect of student base, why I got into it, and why the Dow was and was appropriate. I was like, but that a lot of the time that they're just projecting on me, or they're not, they're not saying they're not really piercing me, like you meet elders, and they just pierced you and they, sometimes they just don't talk, you know what I mean? We all know, elders, and we know what's up there. And on. So that was it for me. So when I was looking at Western herbs, they're like, adaptogens, to help you adapt to stress. And I was like, cool, but what's that going to do for me? You know, like, yeah, in 30 years, and then I've since discovered that that aspect of Western herbalism. But at the time, I wasn't finding it, it was just like, you know, this system, this symptom, you know, can be good to help you tone this part of your body. And I was like, This is not a connection. And then when I just have a Taoism that was like, your gene is your potential, your potential to not age extra prematurely. And if you can retain potential up until you get over the hump of that last initiation, to what is you know, why they're called elderhood? Or, you know, being a rat, old guy or whatever, stay Yes, whatever you want to call it, that's pretty good. Because you've cultivated you know, you've got the discipline to upkeep your practices that aren't going to just dramatically take you off to a lifecycle and enter into the death cycle. And I was like, oh my god, like, That's rad. Like that's like that I can connect to because yes, so how is your journey been? You know raising I think you said one in six year old one in five, but I'm six Yeah. When is six? So how is your journey been? You know, delving into Taoism and raising these kids and
Unknown Speaker 43:15
you know, stepping into that elderhood position while working with tonic herbs and nourishing your Jing and and you know, any any tips for people that are currently parents out there or are wanting to be soon like, obviously, every person is individualized and things like that but what what has worked best for you?
Unknown Speaker 43:41
Yeah, I mean, like so Taoism, and naturally life and parenthood and all that it's I think, I it was really nice for me to be like, look out to that 6570 year old 80 year old and just think I don't know the word elderhood I need to put it aside and just and that's why sometimes I use just like not being an asshole When what to me like for being a rad old person. And then just giving you the capacity to like to study what elderhood is, or just be around the presence of someone like like, who would you go oh my god, that oh my gosh, that's an elder and all in Taoism, someone who's embodied their Shin that nothing is ever going to get there the diamond of their heart out of their blood, and they're never going to be able to be wavered from their embodied wisdom so that's the first thing because leading up to whenever that happens and I imagine it comes with a particular messiness when you get them
Unknown Speaker 44:35
I you know, we get quite I do I get quite perfectionist, I'll study the Taoism and it'll it'll it'll have it's like idealized like you know, when you're embody this it says gratitude emerges from you and love and blah blah and and it's quite
Unknown Speaker 44:52
you know, it's quite confronting when then you have a business and you have the kids and you have you know, your your start working in like decades time periods and you
Unknown Speaker 45:00
like on the field loading shit and doing shit you've never done before. And it gets messy and you know all like that that's like I think that's the biggest thing that I've really enjoyed over the last few years is likewise been in a relationship where we both have a very strong understanding that you know, we're both in the middle of it and there's gonna be like pockets have empathy for each other going through these transitions having faith they're going to land but it's definitely yeah, I'm yeah, that that idealism. I think that's just something I think the the, the wellness, the wellness scene, the wellness, dogmatic scene, its focus is definitely on destinations and not journeys, and just how, and the Yeah, and that's why we see, you know, you see these people who were like, you know, really prominent, like, few years ago, people who I ran with, and you see them, they haven't been able to let go of the identity of perfectionism and spirituality and entrepreneurship and, you know, and health and you watch them slowly ossify into this weird, contorted like internet persona, rather than actually like someone who's come out of that phase. And then they enter into another messy phase. And, and, and allow themselves to transform like, that's, that's, I'm obsessed with watching that, and I watch those people to give me context of how I need to, like, ease up on certain aspects and of my obsession, because I've got such high aspirations that the more my aspiration gets really real to me the grittier, I get into my, into my process, and the less say, the less I have real interest in, in, in presenting some kind of like,
Unknown Speaker 46:37
you know, like, I study virtues a lot. It's the first step of Taoism to cultivate virtues. And
Unknown Speaker 46:43
when you when you drop in, and when you let go of the mental idea of what gratitude is, and you stop trying to mentally
Unknown Speaker 46:51
projected out there and you go, Oh, well, what is it to cultivate it and you go, I've got like, two decades of like cultivation, to really understand what gratitude is you get snippets as you go along, but it's just, you know, in terms of gives you the opportunity to go in and really allow yourself to feel gratitude by actually, you know, by being perceived as an asshole by certain people in, you know, along along the journey. And you know, that that kind of grittiness is probably something I'm like, I understand why it's like, it's difficult to find other people who were like, so genuinely on that journey, because from an outside in perspective, you know, it was like, we were talking about living in a village before everyone knew everyone's dirty laundry, and everyone, no one could have that sense of perfection if everyone knew everyone's else's edges. And so that's, and therefore, it was easy to go in and for a shaman to heal that person. But like, right now, it's just like, right, yeah, it's really difficult to, to feel comfortable to do that. And it's also not appropriate to share what's going on and examples on like, on a, worldwide in a worldwide turnover, like the the,
Unknown Speaker 47:57
this global community can't handle like the realities of what it takes to go through these transitions and how messy it can look on the on the inside. And so, just really accepting that going with, you know, with the one year old and the six year old, I then stopped doing the work and it's like, but you know, really grateful for my like hectic, you know, my hectic initiations in my 20s of, you know, that other psychedelic work and
Unknown Speaker 48:23
all the, you know, the real cathartic personal development experiences. And then at this point, just like I'm gonna, you know, real nice and slow and consistent with, you know, just the union talk therapy. And, and keeping it real simple. And yeah, going, like, going into a little bit more of the mundane. And which is getting big spleen energy, which is like, hard for someone who's so liver driven as me where vision and like, No, we now don't need to go do that. And they're like, you haven't done the thing that you said five years ago. And I'm like, Yeah, but other people will do it. It's
Unknown Speaker 49:00
so,
Unknown Speaker 49:01
yeah, going really, really well. Like, you know, the whole, like, freedom and the discipline thing, and it's not to me, it's never been disciplined in the practice that I fall off my physical practice, like really, like really quick and it's like, have discipline and I'm like, No, I'm like a little rat with mine. My discipline is in showing up again, you know, not selling the business.
Unknown Speaker 49:25
You know, showing up just going like, I know I'm looking like a crazy person and but it just I get the feeling not to budge, but also not to act on this right now. People are like, Oh, why don't you just like, get rid of that project? Or that person isn't, you know, get rid of that person? Or was like you're complaining about undecide? No, I need to sit here stubbornly and really figure out what's going on here. And that might be for months. And so that persistence, and that that discipline to go through those like messy stages and also then to rather than you know, whether it is your physical practice or those people that's up
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Use your discipline to go to those people or those modalities that are like really the ones that and be honest with yourself that it's not just distracting yourself with a yoga practice that makes you feel enlightened and you get to bypass it, but something that actually makes you feel the way you feel. That's been big. And that's been years for me now, like, it's been real hardcore, hardcore process, but then, you know, with kids, it's makes it so much easier. But it's like, it's like, That one goes one way or another that way, you know, yes, like cats in the cradle kind of shit or like this, like this, that, you know, a good like, being really proud of yourself, even though you'd look back and go like, Oh, man, like, that sucked. And I wasn't present or that I was like, sad during this time. But
Unknown Speaker 50:44
like, that's probably where I'm at, even though that was really rambley. Like that. I honestly, that's been my meditation for the past three years of like, to really dissecting What does discipline mean, right. And from like, a young Western approach. It's very, like, yeah, it can be easy to spiritually bypass and be like, No, I'm just going to not feel I'm going to push for it. I'm going to, yeah, maybe you have a yoga practice. Maybe you have whatever practice from the outside, it looks pretty, but like, you're not feeling your mess. You're not feeling all the things and, and I think that for a kid, like being a parent and teaching your kids, it's like, it's okay. To be messy. It's okay to like, emotionally and like, feel your emotions, and be disciplined in feeling that and cultivating whatever in your life, to feel that and then from like, a Dallas practitioner perspective, it's like that, that discipline to be vulnerable, I think is where the, you know, you're talking about, like, kind of that shamanic element is like, when you're reading someone's pulse, you can have a vision and really be present to what's happening, and not try to jump to a solution or not try to, you know, bypass it or not feel it. It's like, you know, we're consciousness being conscious of consciousness itself. And if we're not conscious to what's happening, what are we doing? You know, it's like, it's so easy to get caught up in all the disciplines, all the philosophies all what I should be doing future versions of myself, or even present ego versions of who we should be and all that stuff, but it's like, we're all very complex human beings and it can we be present to all the complexities without any labels of good and bad because that that's where the juiciness happens. And
Unknown Speaker 52:39
yeah, and it People might think you're crazy, or you're messy, or whatever, are too much, but it's like, that's I for my purse, like that's where the juiciness is. To like, allow yourself to grieve allow yourself to, to feel a lot, you know, that's the grave one is is interesting, because I'm at the end of our super feast, we go away in March, every year for our off site, and every year a new theme or place so yeah, we had we had a metal despite what's going on cosmically, the micro is super face has been in a metal gear.
Unknown Speaker 53:13
And we're in our last sprint of obviously, at this point for, for metal. And so I've actually, you know, I've seen like, some team members be like, you know, get to the point. Okay, that was a big year, and there was a lot of chopping and dropping, that's happened and refinement. And so now let's kind of like, let's, you know, let's be, let's relax on it a little bit. And let's like, you know, just make things a bit lighter and sat. And I'm like, and I went to do and it was so disingenuous, and I was like, how about you feel sad?
Unknown Speaker 53:45
About the changes? Like, how about we don't do that? How about we like, yeah, just continue to mourn in a real, you know, it's not as cathartic as it was induced in a slow, you know, in a slow manner.
Unknown Speaker 53:59
And that's, and it's so like, it's, it continues to be so
Unknown Speaker 54:05
uncomfortable. And that is I always talk about in the sense of metal.
Unknown Speaker 54:12
It's the one that Westerners
Unknown Speaker 54:17
Western is always happy to go to water, because it's like, yeah, just
Unknown Speaker 54:21
for Alaska. Especially, well relax, but, you know, go into the big dark night of the soul. And yeah, you know, when you go and take a big dose of, you know, whatever psychedelic it is, and you just spend you let go and you'd let go of the edges, like, letting go is actually easy, but like, really slowly with a sharp machete going, I am, I am going to not only let go of this, I'm going to cut back that even though it's nostalgic, or I thought for ages that to iron, they're like, oh, no, let me just like go and let the medicine chop it away. For me. It's like and that's why you know, the metal, the metal, it's hard and that's where
Unknown Speaker 55:00
That's that that discipline in that engagement comes from that middle year. So I'm Mike. And I'm feeling it as well like, the sadness of like, I thought this business would be different by now I didn't think I'd be doing this at this point, I thought this would be easy. I didn't think I thought just magically, the business was going to
Unknown Speaker 55:15
implement all of these same tropic self regulating systems, and it would just be running right now. And I'd be around the world just telling Yes. Oh, my God, you want me on the podcast, and you want me on the podcast and like, but no, he I, like, you know, about to walk into a, into a water year where that side, we actually create the bones of the business again, like the vision that I had in 2015, in terms of the business model still isn't in here. And I'm like, okay, crap. I've done a lot in that time. But just you know, that that's that then you mourn and to mourn, it is really,
Unknown Speaker 55:50
really liberating. And the last thing I thought I think we're going through in terms of discipline at the moment, is because we've just, I think we're kind of getting that real awareness of when you cherry pick aspects of Ayurveda, and yoga, and cherry pick aspects of plant medicine, and Taoism. And you don't even you know, the many roads to Rome, say in Taoism, the many lineages the path is quite different. But it's been over generations and generations that they're like, you start here, can you cultivate this, and then you cultivate this, so that you don't cultivate at a time when you're facing in the wrong direction, and you get consumed. I think we're all paying for that in a beautiful way. I know I am, in terms of I've just went into, you know, particular strengthening strengthening exercises, because they were cool. And they made me feel like really cosmic. And I've really pushed myself and elevated myself in a direction where, you know, naturally, because I was a little bit younger, I didn't realize I wasn't pointing in the right direction, I was pointing myself in the right direction for maybe the next two years, that I only needed to make that a small part of my practice, so that when I did get to the end, right, to that point, I could go Alright, so I now shift to practice and now move over here. And I'm really, I feel like I've been quite, quite fortunate. But I feel like I'm also paying the piper in the sense that like, I really had a strong feeling a couple of like, a couple of years ago that I need to find my basic practices that are quite benign and just are supporting. And even likewise, a lot of the herbs, there were some herbs that were so great for helping me engage in a particular direction, I need to stop, and I just needed to go into like something like Chaga, that was just like for my body, it's very supportive and doesn't have agenda.
Unknown Speaker 57:37
And it will help me stay still, if that's what I need to do, stay, stay still. Because I had shot off in many directions and haven't completely integrated. And every, you know, when you get into Taoism, and they're like, you really got it, like, if you get great to find the teacher, even if that teacher is stuck, you know, in a place that isn't quite fully there, they do know the map, and they hold map. And it's really important for you to know what, why you need to hate say, like cultivate virtue before moving in to like engaging in flying through the universe and engaging with the liberal horn. And, you know, and bringing vision into reality, because you won't know how to, and it can lead to like, to psychosis, or it could just lead to you floating for quite some time and actually not been ineffective. And that would be tragic. I think that kind of that's coming in at the moment. I think that's where you're gonna see Taoism really start singing in because the old the maps are
Unknown Speaker 58:30
there, like they've been preserved likewise in Ayurveda, but it's just, I can't connect with that tradition of moment. Like, it's like, I can see Taoism is coming forth, and then it's able to pinpoint exactly like, this is why you're not being effective, you need to come and be a student in this in, in this manner, and it's just so it's like, got so much like, not here, you know, and even though it's hard, because you've been so effective in western life, but you start feeling, you know, you start feeling odd, but I'm not really satisfied, they're able to just nail it so, so quickly. So I think you're gonna start seeing that happen. And that's why I think a lot of people try and just go to that point, like, I'm just going to drop everything, and they go too far that like, I'm going to reject health and wellness and spiritual culture because and they go against it and they become complete, like not, you know, the norm is that, you know, you see that extreme occurring, because you felt how close you flew to the Sun elevating yourself in a practice, you weren't actually aware of the fact that it was pushing you in the direction that you were facing, but you were facing unintentionally. So you needed to not actually do that. So that's kind of funny, you can see that happening in the western world where, you know, a lot of the two minute noodles are like, No, I'm completely justified to do this and create a business around this type of breathwork because, like, it's good for people. And it's like, yeah, probably 90% of the time it is but 10% of the time when you actually help people go some people who will be like, take that cherry pick breath because it's Yang or or maybe because it's Yin, you know, some some some people in the opposite dress
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
Action and there's too much of that and you're going to, you're going to, it's not going to be so innocent in like, Oh, it's just going to be beneficial, it'll actually, and it'll be what that person needs that into an extent you know, but at the same time, you will be supporting them go so far off from their center that they might get really last. And it's not always just like, oh, the universe's plan, sometimes you're the one helping them engage with a practice that takes them to that point where they come so unengaged and then you get to go like, whatever, I don't know that person anymore, they're off in their doing doing their thing, and then put that foundation you helped lay for them, leads to them by being very men becoming very mentally and done. So that's where we are, I think the respect and the reverence, which is kind of I find the middle quality is going to be emerging for these for these lineages and traditions. And we won't just have Westerners rocking around pretending that they're experts in something that there are two minute noodle and
Unknown Speaker 1:00:56
I love
Unknown Speaker 1:00:59
how you can scale the different cycles, right? Five elements. And, you know, we're talking about the different times of the day, right of
Unknown Speaker 1:01:09
I think you're talking about
Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
like one to 3pm is small intestine, so it will siesta, you know, you should be digesting, you know, whatever. And then, you know, we're talking about lung three to 5am. If you're waking up in that, in that time, maybe you're grieving, you know, that's like, lungs, the heart is meridian, like, maybe She'd cry, you know, maybe there's something that you should be grieving about. And then and then I'll even expanding like, the seasons as well. It's been weird moving to Austin. And we don't really have seasons, I grew up most of my life in the northeast of the US. And we have like, very rigid seasons. And it made it really easy for me to like, alright, it's springtime. It's wood. It's liver biters. Like, you know, I'm going out in the woods and I'm picking, you know, dandelion, I'm, like, you know, doing all that. And it was very easy for me to get into the cycles, but I love even further, you're like, I Yeah, we do these, the, the cycles with our business and even further of just like, society is going in this this cycle, and even even just like a greater, so I love that, that that's just like a really cool way to think about, you know, on micro timescales, but also macro timescales of just like really grounding in, you know, like, change, right? And like being fluid in that change and knowing that
Unknown Speaker 1:02:39
how to adapt with change, because if you look at nature, yeah, it's not stagnant. Maybe some places around the world are a little bit more stagnated in some places than others and others are a lot more changing but, and adapt to your local environment and your body and your stage of life. But like, I just think that's a really grounded approach to
Unknown Speaker 1:03:02
to be present of what's happening. Present, present, you know, I mean, who would have thought, you know, that like, the most shamanic and trippy, you know, approach, Yin Yang and whooshing, five elements would like lead to like, real grounded business practice.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:19
Yeah, it's literally, at the start of it, I went through and I was like, What does metal note represent its rest its rhythm. It's, it's the meeting rhythm, it's the offside rhythm, it's the rhythm of what we do at that, you know, that nine, that's clean time that nine to 11 in the morning, you know, like that, so and so getting those rhythms down. And likewise, a full, a full blown analysis and taking everything through the forgery, and melting it down. And, and, and using that, that metal,
Unknown Speaker 1:03:51
as you know, forming it into a shape that is going to capture the water for you now, not to where you were three years ago. And because we'd already been through a spleen season, I'd gone through and I literally had every single thing in the business run back through me after I took over the CEO link from my wife. I was like, every decision runs through me. And I was like, why are you making that decision? Or because I've got this is what we do here. And I'm like, that is an assumption and a thought form that does not align and I want and I'm then I help digest that and let it become whatever it needs to be. And so so the spleen was back functioning and digesting everything. And then it literally got to the point for the middle year started the year, they were like, we're actually going to not focus on that anymore. We're going to chop that. And, you know, obviously, like the grief for some people was too much. And being like, no, it's like too much is changing. And I'm like, Yeah, that's exactly what happens, changes that change is going to happen and
Unknown Speaker 1:04:49
how and that's what we went through. But the whole point of metal is, is you go through this and you use what resources you have and you bring them into formation.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
that allows you to perceive and capture the value that you intrinsically have. And so it becomes, you know, like, you go through this process in terms of like this metal year towards doctor like, well, what's what's most valuable, what's precious. And for me, it was like the seed idea of why I started superbeets was the most precious. And then, and then the distinction between that really rough seed idea that is me and my muse. And then that birthing that evolutionary purpose of super feast and that separation, yet that connection in the org chart, defining that creating the Constitution, you know, really refining the virtues, it's the most precious part, this is how we do things, this is how we do not do things. And that's okay, you know, that we went through that preciousness, process and found the gold, and then likewise, found the assumptions that were like, if we're abundant, and cultivating Chi in this business, whether it's like,
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
you know, whether it's been able to do, like, fun projects, or create new products, or have profit and put that profit towards bringing new skill in, that was like, you could feel we got to the point where it's people were like, No, that's not valuable to us. And I'm like,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:13
it is
Unknown Speaker 1:06:15
I'm telling you, as the authority as the I'm the one that, like, created the womb for this company, I have the ultimate authority. And actually, this is what's valuable to me, you don't go into someone else's home and tell them how to raise their child. And even though you can be someone who can give opinion, and that person can respect your opinion, if you're coming from a place of love, and it's for people to understand that within a business, it's sometimes difficult. And, and the, and that level of, you know, sometimes you can't connect to like, oh, it's different. I've been, you know, I've been I work here, and this is just as much like my company, it's like,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:50
so, like it is there's an eye and to have, had to have that respect for the authority that I have, because I was the birth and and likewise, for me to have like, sort of, like love, honor, respect for you the authority that you have coming into the company and energizing those roles. It creates, like such a, my friend calls it an Iraqi, that you don't need to have, like hierarchy and managerial positions defined because you have people that have enough capacity to connect with the reality of how authority is naturally distributed through a natural ecosystem, whether it's business or through nature. And, yeah, that so going through a metal year, and going through that and finding the gold and now sharpening, like, what's the stuff that makes God like, my team or like getting people on these bloody herbs because we have such a backlog that's valuable. That's let's sharpen that.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:42
And so, you know, that was like ecommerce, just like, you know, fortification, and just like, you know, refining the way that we tell people about this. We're so good at retention that we're so we've been so poor, because our tools have been so blunt, because we don't like going through sadness and mental changes that we've become really ineffective at telling people about, you know, about us. And so it was like, I find this uncomfortable as well. But that's this. That's this last trimester before the end of the middle year. It's like, well, what's the thing that's like, if our tools a sharp bang, make us like really effective, and that one hit, you know, that samurai like, you know, like Miyamoto Musashi, one one stroke, that's it, I don't want to be blown out battle. And it's like, a commerce and the way we express ourselves.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:31
Yeah, I think you were talking about before about, you know, those people who literally have complaints that I'm just, I'm tired, and I want support and being tired or immune support. And it's like, Yeah, but look at this hectic organ, we'll look at this.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:47
And I kind of like talking about that. That's the, you know, the sales funnel. I like thinking of it as spiral. And it's like, the sales spiral. And
Unknown Speaker 1:08:56
to get out of your own way, and allow yourself to communicate with like, empathy and love in a way that those people, you know, who are just like, they're seeking the things just the way I was seeking them. Like, it's, it was such a great liberating experience for me to get out of the businesses wave and allow that to happen, knowing that there's always that option to go as deep as you want. You know, it's like, it's why podcasts are so nice, because people enjoy, like, wow, okay. Yeah, this is why I made them. The Mr. podcast is just, you know, I know for most people, they're going to buy a product, they're not going to be that interested in mushrooms. But if I can, if people want to go deep, this is why I have the podcast and I bring on experts from around the world. It's like, yeah, you can go, it's up to you, you know, like, and hopefully, for a lot of people, I want you to go super deep with mushrooms and into your cells and into being passionate about the universe. But you know, which is interesting to have a business and kind of
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
You have to hold both sides of you want to educate people, you want to be like, you want to dive super deep with people, but then you got to pay your bills.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:09
You know, you have to have a proper business structure and to, to water down education around herbs to like, the finite points. It's a struggle that I've heard a lot of people, including myself, and I'm sure you deal with this a lot. And then we have, you know, we can only say things and FDA compliance. So just a whittles down what we can say even more and and it's like, yeah, not everyone's signing up for a whole class, or course a masterclass on this. And so, for most people, they, they want something to, to have more energy or whatever. And so that's fine. Some people might start there, and then hopefully, they develop their journey more but kind of meet meeting everyone where they're at is what I found the best. And it's interesting, because I've started recently thinking about areas where I'm doing something just because I want, I want a little bit more status. And so it's like, my greatest weakness area is in like, say, like my own finances. And so when I try and engage with someone to be like, I just need to start, like, I just need to do this practice. Can you just tell me how to do like this took my bank accounts is a very, I can't think of a good example. But like, Yeah, but it's because of intergenerational wealth. And I'm like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, I just, like, I just need you to give me the little bit size right now. And that's gonna support the trip that I'm on. And I really try and get out of that my own way. It'd be like, you know, there's like, you know, when construction workers come, or when an accountant comes, or when a teacher comes, they're like, they're so deep in it. They're just like, I just needed a little bit of vitality to get through these days for these kids. Because it's so insane. I'm just like, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:50
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:52
I would so inappropriate to have I do have another expectation.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:59
Yeah, it's really funny. You're talking about like, you're in metal season right now.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:04
As you're talking, I'm like, looking at this five element chart right now. And I was like, Yeah, mushroom revival has been around for five years, or just about, and I'm like, thinking back of all five years, and I'm like, actually, we've been following a mic. First year, definitely a wood year, then fire then Earth, the metal oven. Now it's been water. And we're ramping up. But you know, we're planning for next year. And I'm like, that's super wood. You know, and then we're the next year after that super fire. And it's just, it's cool that I haven't been intentional about being like, this is blah, blah, blah, year, but it's, it's cool that it has followed that organically. And this is inspiring me to, to, like sit down and
Unknown Speaker 1:12:50
even being more intentional of of that, right? Because I feel like, it makes so much sense. It's very complex, but it you know, it does make a lot of sense. And the more the more you dive into to these philosophies, you're like, oh, my god, yeah, like this. Totally spot on. Definitely. Pretty wild. And for anyone who like you, I Oh, yeah. Cool. Like, would you like when you actually because, I mean, I don't know, if you follow like anything, like, if you have, like, you know, like, we use wealth dynamics and our business, which is based on five elements, classification unit, you know, and so everyone will be like, there's nine, I guess, like business archetypes, you know, they sit either in wood, fire earth for metal. And various departments likewise, fall within these, these and then what there's water as well, when within the visionary and leadership department. And you do watch when you go into metal,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:46
you watch so many projects emerge from those departments that either are dominated by metal or have a lot of metal tossed, or it's the metal tasks within, say, the fire of like the conversions department and sales and conversions department. It's those metal tasks that like bring the bring nourishment of the fire there, they just rise up and they're like, this is dominating us in terms of the projects that we did work on. And so for me going into this water year, I just went and actually had fun chatting with old you know, chatty, G
Unknown Speaker 1:14:20
chatting with open AI, about this and going to say bouncing back and forth on like, what, what are the aspects of water and downloading everything I know about water and what departments and what aspects and it's like, super clarity, super foundations are hyper clarity in in departments communicating with each other. And then I look at, you know, my business mentors and you look at their roadmap of business implementation, I'm at that point of, I'm actually at that point of like, instilling leaders and roles within the company where there are people like purely set up to do interdepartmental communication. So you watch it all. And then you can I
Unknown Speaker 1:15:00
And then over to my co COO, and I go and it's likewise in processes and policies and
Unknown Speaker 1:15:06
those things that lay down the fundamental bones of the body, the found and and likewise, that which you derive essence from being the bone marrow that's like that's the processes and GUI processes that have just been able to measure them and watch them and see how bone swarm does like, Oh my God, here it is. And it just like handed that over to the CLO, she's like, Oh, my God, I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know if that was an appropriate direction. But everything else happens, you eventually you just dilute it down, and you only have a few water things going on that like maintainers, the focus, and then everything else kind of like emerges from that because it's not linear. You're not just always in one, one of the transitions. So yeah, it's pretty, like, I think, you know, down the line, I reckon that's where I'm going to end up is in consulting in these areas and kind of talked about going into like, you know, businesses like ours, we can were there, you know, but I think there's a lot of businesses who are like they yearning for this, but they need a soul retrieval before they can actually, like get into this rhythm. So I always thought about getting into like business, or organizational level soul retrieval, and then helping facilitate the pulse check of like, where you're actually at can be quite objective in terms of, as you said, it's like it's all there. It's quite objective and going with knowing whether you're in a fire Euro water, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:18
That's, that's awesome. The big question.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:23
How long has it been 12 years? First year fees? Yeah, 2011 yet? Yeah. Long time. If you could go back in time. And knowing everything that you know, today, what would you do differently?
Unknown Speaker 1:16:41
Hmm, yeah. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna give this
Unknown Speaker 1:16:48
I think sometimes people think like, No, I don't have regret. I like having regret. But I also wouldn't change anything. Like, I like having regret. Yeah. Because I say, you know, yeah, I go, I'm gonna, I'll say this. And because I know, I'm gonna go through this again, and I'm gonna make, I might make the same mistake, but it would, it would be in very at the very
Unknown Speaker 1:17:11
beginning. As soon as I established a particular cashflow, per month, I'd go and get myself into
Unknown Speaker 1:17:19
a business owners community straightaway, and I would kind of, and I would just, I'd stay in it for years, so that I constantly had a grounding force to stop me from floating off. And likewise, in that sense, I'd create a profit account so that when I made profit, I would, I would be able to like, move it over into that into that account. And not just be blindly just reinvesting in the business, but just with anything and everything that came up. So I'd really conscientiously be reinvesting all of that. All of that, that profit or that additional chi, and then I would work my ass off into get myself to a point where I could I would hire, the first hire I would have made would have been not someone who was necessarily a fan of the business, even though that was like, they wouldn't mind if they were a fan of the business. But someone who knew who might have to I say I'd hire next in line, who was an I'd get help in hiring from, from a recruiter, in terms of new executive indicate exactly where I was at all the flaws that I had as a founder and exactly what I what I needed, and I'd make that the first hire outside of people helping me pack and maybe doing admin, that's what I would do.
Unknown Speaker 1:18:37
And when you say reinvest, do you mean in other ventures? No, it just didn't like things that like if I had if you got a certain amount of profit there and I know I've got that money to invest in another salary right now or into r&d
Unknown Speaker 1:18:54
or into into a coaching or consultancy, just rather than just like spending it in somebody you know, that whole like beginning like watching them on the Monica burger. And not knowing whether I'd really picked the project or the place to invest it was like the cream on top and it was like by far that was just going to have the most impact and would create the most days I've got that access right now in terms of picking projects it's impact verse A's, and you watch full would put them all of our projects on there and you watch those that I
Unknown Speaker 1:19:27
there's actually no denying it. Like there's like that. For us right now. Getting incredible at creating world class creative is just the thing that is going to create that most amount of impact because we've got all the stock we've got all of the essence we've got the you know, we've got this incredible business we just don't have enough people like finding us right now. Right and right, we've been Yeah, we've been resistant to kind of like playing the game of like ad creative and I'm now I'm really excited about it because I feel like I'm a pirate going you know didn't turn in an intern did an intern
Unknown Speaker 1:20:00
Turning into like these uncharted waters. Yeah, finding another part of the bell curve, you know, for me, getting into pharmacy getting into pharmacy in Australia, getting into oncology wards in Australia, like, all of that kind of stuff is there. And right now we need, you know, it's like when you look at all the numbers and track all the numbers, we can see that we're getting clogged up and not able to go and do that and put, you know, bring someone on say, for example, that's going to help us supercharge because we've got like, you know, we're not moving through enough stock fast enough, because we've had to, like change our model and pack off site and TGA facilities, which have insane mo use that, therefore, we've clogged up. So when we did the we did the cream chart, it's like, what's the easiest, and we're gonna have the highest impact, it was like that. And we just literally chopped away three other projects, right, right there, boom, bang, I would have gotten into that way sooner. Yeah, I would have started governance a lot sooner as well, like everything in terms of like, in the whole, like, Emeth book, everything in the E Myth, I would have got my two IC to implement that. And I would have gotten them to implement governance, which is a huge part of holacracy. And having a, like, a synergistic ecosystem to psyche level based organization, a huge part is having meeting rhythm being a business that allows people to sense where the next opportunity for growth is that having in such insane structures for how to process that within the meeting structure with follow up, and with governance conversation that like had was hyper adaptive, and looking at what roles are emerging, what tasks are moving between current roles, maybe the the role, the purpose statement for a role needs to emerge on, you know, like, so on and so forth. Having a bucket for that is another thing I would have started really early on.
Unknown Speaker 1:21:45
Yeah, it's always the
Unknown Speaker 1:21:49
balance between
Unknown Speaker 1:21:52
creating a rigid people structure, right, and systems, but then I've seen so many businesses get, get lost in the sauce of their systems, right? And then things take forever. Like, I mean, it's classic bureaucracy of things move in an iceberg. Pace, and it's like, yeah, everything is very organized, but it's like, holy shit, does it take forever? And maybe that's good in certain instances. And, and I think that's where the, you're talking about, like the effort versus impact structure, and I've always also viewed it as like, you know, or, or something in tandem is like the 8020 rule, right?
Unknown Speaker 1:22:33
What is something that takes 20% of your effort that gives 80% impact, right? And should you really be doing something that you're spending 80% of your effort, but only gives 20%? Impact? No, you know, and it's also kind of the balance, which is, is hard as a founder, we you brought up like
Unknown Speaker 1:22:56
that first hire of holding up a mirror to show you where you can improve, like, as a founder, and it's, I hear this all the time, and I've been guilty of it as well of like, you know, it's easy to get caught in like a power trip of like, I'm right, or I this is my vision, or this is whatever and all the opposite of going on, you must know better. And you even sometimes have to ice be like, Excuse me, no, no one knows better than you in this in this instance. True. Yeah, but and all like product development as well. Like, this is something that we've struggled with of either being like, no, like, you know, we're gonna make a super, like, super potent product, and we're gonna do all this, blah, blah, blah, and all these cool extractions and all this stuff, and then we release it, and no one, no one cares about it. Right? And we're super pumped about it. We're like, Oh, my God, we did all this complex first in the world stuff. And like, we release it, and no one cares. And this is a project that we're like, hyped on, you know, and then then the flip is, like, you know, for powders, it's like, people are like, I don't like bitter bubble, blah. So we worked so hard to like, make them flavorful, and a little sweeter. And like, we're like, alright, we're hearing the feedback. We release it and then people are like, oh, like, it's too sweet. It's too flat. I'm like, come on, did like and so it's that that that balance between like, your, your inner intuition and your knowledge and like what you're passionate about versus like, Yeah, this is a service for other people. And so you have to meet people where you where you're at, but you can't you also can't sacrifice your inner voice to like serve the masses because then you'll lose yourself. Right? And it will be apparent in your product and your your offerings and your you'll you'll lose your soul. Right? And then you'll come in and do a soul retrieval.
Unknown Speaker 1:24:54
Yeah, I mean, that's, it's re going through and creating the source Doc, you
Unknown Speaker 1:25:00
bench, which is the we call it the classic, the super face classic the constitutional document. And it states, you know, these are the types of conversations we have in this business. This is how, when there's conflict, this is how you go about processing conflict without bringing anyone else in this is how decision making is made in the business here are the virtues of the company and what they mean, here's the source idea that you always connected to, here's the evolutionary purpose, every decision comes from this evolutionary purpose. And now we haven't even rolled it out again, like into the team, it's just me and the like, say, sweet, I really like living and breathing. And all of a sudden, there's these products that I had such nostalgia for. But it's like, you know, if you have nostalgia for the branch of a fruit tree that is stopping the fruit from you know, the other parts of the tree from being born, you're like, Oh, my God, I have to chop it. So I'm, like, removing products that were like, second formula that I haven't brought up right now. And I'm like, because we've had that source document, you know, when, likewise, when, when, you know, it was about been susceptible, very much to the community going, I want this and I want that and, and everyone gets into a flurry because you're in the cult, you're what you're really highlighting the customer service side of things. But if we had, because I went back I like, you know, they ask you answer is a book that I love my customer service team having yet my product, Universe team. And to an extent the marketing team, they listen to books about like, customers don't know shit is like that's like they don't like they don't know what they want. And right, you need to be able to have both of those. And that friction, and that dialectic within your company. That's the only way you have evolution is when you have that friction. But then to get to the point where I've got, I used to be the big people in the company, like, Oh, my God, don't cut that formula. I love it so much. And I'm like that, let's look at what we're here to do. Objectively, we literally have one product that if we just charge behind that one, it would permeate. Yeah. Worlds of like, you can't, we can't even imagine. But and then we get to the point. But then we won't have that universe where people can explore tonic herbalism. And we go great. This is a really good distinction the unit but what how many do we need? Do we need to add all these extra things now? And everyone's like, Oh, it would be fun. But no. It's like, Ah, how incredible you know, like, yeah, to have to have a source document that forces you into those places are, gosh, it's what, uh, yeah, how often do you learn and you look back, and, you know, it's, you know, you look back at what you've, I love how, like investing in my growth, but it's so wild to, like, have a business, as people quite often come into my business analysis. And they're like, how are you still operating? Like,
Unknown Speaker 1:27:43
it's good, it's good. On a personal level, too. It's like, you know, we get attached to nostalgia or, you know, it's like, oh, I used to I used to be that person. Right? Or your your, you know, yeah, me you're describing with, like health influencers, they like latch on to this ego for so many years. Or like, even, you might have a habit that's very,
Unknown Speaker 1:28:06
it's very comforting, or comfortable, right? But like, is it serving? You know, and you might need to cut it out? Right? And maybe this one habit is that you have is just killing it for you, right. And the last thing is, like, yeah, maybe put more energy towards that. And it's, I feel like, you know, the universe is so interconnected, that all all these principles that you're talking about for the business is applies to anything, really. And like, the five element theory applies to everything, even psychedelics, it's like, you know, you got the prep, you got the journey, you got the integration, you got to integrate, right, like, it's all it's all interconnected, which is the fun part of this. It's, you know, they, yeah, so it's cool watching you, like, put these philosophies in every aspect of your life. And I think,
Unknown Speaker 1:28:59
yeah, it's cool. It's, it's inspiring me to, like, look at at my life and my business structure and be like, alright, like, how, how is this organized? And what season are you in? And yeah, it's cool, because it's, and I won't go on a tangent right now. But it's nice to go. Am I treating this philosophy, like a nice ancient ornament, that makes me feel really important? They rate having it and have I have I actually commodified it? Or do I believe in this shit, you know, and sometimes you do need to have your faith awakened, that your faith is there in terms of the pipe, you're working with it already, because I still go, Oh, my God, I didn't realize just how active even just like the whooshing, the five, the five elements were and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, and it's such a it's such a strange thing to say, but when you implement it, and you're like, Wow, this is like super legit. It's like, it's like, I knew that
Unknown Speaker 1:29:51
on a level where all of a sudden this flow and this clarity emerges, and you're like, wow, I really can flow with nature and the universe. You know, like
Unknown Speaker 1:30:00
Yeah, cool.
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