Mycomaterials with Jessica Dias and Catherine Euale
Alisa Nappa
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Today we sit down with the two bio babes, Jessica Dias and Catherine Euale, from Fungal Matters, who have their hands deep in the world of mycomaterials. Their work spans across various projects such as mycelial surfboards, to bacterial electricity, mycelial clothing, an online masterclass, mycocomposites and so mush more.
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TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker 0:11 Welcome, welcome to the mushroom revival podcast. I'm your host, Alex Dora. And we are absolutely obsessed with a wonderful, wacky, mysterious world of fungi, mushrooms and all things in the fungal, queendom kingdom. We bring on guests from all around the world to geek out with us and go down this mysterious rabbit hole. And today we have Katherine and Jessica. And I'll let them introduce themselves. They're up to so much in the micro material world. And this is going to be a really great conversation. So how you doing? Unknown Speaker 0:45 Hey, thanks Unknown Speaker 0:48 for having us. I can start with my introduction. So my name is Jessica Diaz. I'm a research and designer, working with biomaterials, particularly funky materials. Unknown Speaker 1:01 I co founded the collective bio babes along with flora and adultAge, back in 2017. And actually, along with Katherine, we set up SPO Sica, which is a studio musician design studio here in Barcelona. And then Katherine. Unknown Speaker 1:22 And I'm Katherine, I am a Venezuelan Canadian biological artists similarly to just but have like, I would say, a wider range of studying just different organisms through art. And yeah, I'm more from the storytelling side, definitely, like from an art background. But I think a lot of my pieces more than like the research on biomaterials have to do with like, the narrative, the story, who are these organisms, what do they have to do with my life? And yeah, that's, that's sort of like how I create materials that are more aligned with the living systems. And that's, yeah, links back to the studio setup with just SP Attica. Unknown Speaker 2:07 And, and how did both of you get introduced to fungi myco materials, so then just biomaterials as a whole. Unknown Speaker 2:18 So I actually studied architecture. And during my master's program at IAQ, here in Barcelona, I, Unknown Speaker 2:27 my studio group was given the opportunity to work with any material that we wanted to and of course, we decided to work with bioluminescent bacteria, with none of us having any former biological experience at all. So you can imagine how that went. But like during this process, I was Unknown Speaker 2:46 like, fascinated by the growth of these organisms, and this whole new world and how we can we can learn from them and also apply these learnings and these new systems into design applications. And so during my program, I continued to explore different biomaterials and also different living materials. So for example, kombucha, Unknown Speaker 3:11 the different bioluminescent bacteria, and then I landed on funghi. Unknown Speaker 3:18 So I did a thesis project on mycelium embedded into a 3d printed scaffold using PLA. And basically since then, I've just been like dipping in and out of the the mushroom material world. Unknown Speaker 3:34 But really focusing down on it now in the last like three years. Unknown Speaker 3:41 Yeah, and for me, similarly, I in the same hub, the IAQ. Unknown Speaker 3:49 In Barcelona, I also studied there, and that's where I met Jess. Unknown Speaker 3:54 But yeah, going further back for me, I would say like, I've always been interested in bio materials in a way that I think of them as like more ancestral is like natural dyes as bio materials or using different resins that are from Pine as bio materials. So maybe, like less biotech based, but definitely, those were like my gateways into this world. And then I worked in film for many, many years as a costume or costume designer costume artists, and was like living this very sort of hippie life at home. Kind of like making all my own tinctures natural dyes, like upcycling vintage clothes and all these things and then going to work and using like the most toxic materials and just not really being able to make those lives cohesive. So yeah, I went to study from this really cool Unknown Speaker 4:47 program by one of our mentors, Anastasia and studied there. Really my approach was to try to find alternative leather materials because I've been Unknown Speaker 5:00 and sort of plant based for a really long time and didn't really find that the alternatives that were like PVC based and like the most toxic also petroleum based materials that were like the alternatives for leathers, were, you know, really not sustainable either. And like, actually, it's a lot worse than using leather materials. So it was like, Okay, we need to just find, like biology to some more diversity, like diversify our, our sources for these materials. So, yeah, that's really what got me into it. And same as just like being in this hub and just having sort of like disposition to working with like bacterial cellulose, gooey bio plastics, like in embedding electronics into these materials, all kinds of funky, weird things. We just, we had a lot of space to explore, which was really nice. Unknown Speaker 5:54 So, Jessica, how, how did you transition from getting your undergraduate and master's in architecture to working with biomaterials? Like, Unknown Speaker 6:06 yeah, why? How did you go from that to bioluminescent bacteria? Unknown Speaker 6:11 I mean, I think, once I discovered this world, this micro cosmos, I was like, I'm not so sure about architecture anymore. I'm definitely wanting to, you know, focus on Unknown Speaker 6:25 new materials and like something more sustainable and like all the things that Kat was mentioning before, like the architecture industry itself, I worked in an architecture practice in London for a year and I was I realized, like the types of materials that they were using, the amount of money and time and energy that was also spent into developing these projects, and I wasn't really resonating with it at all. So coming into a space where I was had freedom to explore new materials and something more sustainable, and like really connecting with like, these different microorganisms. I was just like, Okay, this is me, but unfortunately, coming out of or graduating from that kind of world. Back in 2017, there weren't many opportunities to find a job. Unknown Speaker 7:13 And so, I was very fortunate to work alongside Anastasia Pisco Philo, which is one of our mentors, Katherine was mentioning before. And there, I helped develop the small bio lab. And that's where I met Catherine, where it was she was doing the fabric Hitomi course. And from there, we Yeah, there we worked on a little project together, I helped her with her, her mushroom person. And we obviously developed a really like nice relationship with each other. So then COVID hits. Unknown Speaker 7:54 And we had just been given a grant for future water project. So meanwhile, the whole world was like locked inside, we were putting together a new studio space and this is where SPO Sikka Unknown Speaker 8:09 opens up and becomes our research hub. Unknown Speaker 8:14 So yeah, that's sort of the transition I think it's been like, up and down different projects here and they're different grants been able to fund this space and the work that we're doing Unknown Speaker 8:25 but yeah, so if you were here I am now Unknown Speaker 8:28 that's awesome. And I love all the designs with future wardrobes and pretty much all the bio wearables that you'll have created and your team and Catherine congrats on I had no idea that you were a costume designer for Unknown Speaker 8:47 the TV show see on Apple TV and then the movie The craft legacy that's awesome. Unknown Speaker 8:54 Are you are you still you know, creating Unknown Speaker 9:00 these costumes for TV shows movies and incorporating biomaterials into them this is sort of the first year that I've fully stepped aside I think Unknown Speaker 9:12 we touch on this later a little bit more likely but yeah, that's kind of how I was able to like fund a lot of these projects was like film pays really well so I worked in film for a really long time Yeah, and that was really lucky to have some cool gigs like being like the crown maker in jewelry maker on see that's like a really strange random awesome job. Unknown Speaker 9:40 But yeah, that's where I got to. I think like there's a lot of resistance to biomaterials. I did bring it up a lot. One of the reasons that I thought it would be cool also to make sort of like mycelium skins and different leathers is although there are companies that are are doing this like Milo and myco where Unknown Speaker 10:00 So, Unknown Speaker 10:01 I've talked to some of the designers for big shows like Star Trek, for example, gursha. Phillips is like one of my friends. And she's told me that she's used, you know, like samples from some of these big companies, but they're really good for like handbags and shoes and things like that. And not so good for that, like, sort of like lambskin, or like really drapey, just different fields of different fabrics and different textures. So there's like still space, I think, for people, even though there are big companies already doing this. There's like space for different nuances in the feel of different like materials that can be explored. So yeah, this is sort of the first year that I haven't gone back to work in film. But yeah, it's something that's like been a constant in my life for like over a decade. And I know all the ins and outs of that industry pretty well. So I hopefully I can be more part of the environmental move and shift in the industry. But yeah, it's slow. It's an old old industry, and it doesn't really want to change. It's making money pretty well as it is. Right. Right. Right. Well, transitioning to future wardrobes I see. Is that a kelp raincoat? Or algae? Unknown Speaker 11:16 Yes, it looks sick. Unknown Speaker 11:20 That's awesome. Is it? Is it actually functionable? Like, is it waterproof? Unknown Speaker 11:24 So Unknown Speaker 11:28 it is actually waterproof, especially when we first made it. But it's been in our studio now for three years. And it's like, as the seasons change, it also starts to change. So started to sweat. And the sweat has made things sort of drip off and break off and stuff like that. So it's definitely functional. But I think there's a lot more material research that has to go into it to actually make it like, market ready. Unknown Speaker 11:57 It would protect you from the water, though. Unknown Speaker 12:00 And that's kind of on a philosophical note, you know, Unknown Speaker 12:05 I feel like we should, from architecture to wearables, I feel like that there is kind of like a ethical element there of creating materials that can go back to Earth, right? Unknown Speaker 12:19 I mean, obviously, you want it to be functional, and you want it to last. But there is something really beautiful about that decay process, which I think, you know, home homosapiens are afraid of death and decay, and just rekindling back to that cycle of life. And death, you know, yeah, I think it's very much about like, shifting the current consumers perspective, a little bit like, we're so used to, Unknown Speaker 12:47 you know, receiving a jacket and wearing it, and like expecting it to last forever, and then just tossing it away and expecting not caring about what's actually happening to it. But like, at least, if we are having this fast paced consumer mentality, then the things that are considered disposable would actually return to the earth and be part of nature cycle. Unknown Speaker 13:11 So yeah, it's more like, okay, so you can buy this rain jacket, and it will function for you, but it might change color, or it might start to break off. Or maybe you have to take care of it a different way or, yeah, so this is sort of one of the, like, aspects of our future wardrobe project, like how would we? How would a future wardrobe look like you know, would it be a space for Unknown Speaker 13:37 our living garments as like sort of an incubator, Unknown Speaker 13:41 or dehydrator or, you know, what, what would the tools or machines needed or space needed to be for these new garments to be in? Denim? Catherine, if you wanted to speak a little bit more about that part of the project as well? Unknown Speaker 13:55 Yeah, so originally, the idea for the future wardrobe and sort of where it's at now is that we've made this one. This one garment collection that's based on algae and kelp. It's sort of very specific to also bio regions. So we tried to make it like specific to land. And there's a lot of kelp forests around Portugal and around Spain. So it makes sense for where we all were situated at the time. And we kind of like want to keep that in mind for our future wardrobe. But yeah, it was it's like a conceptual idea of having this like your second skin, which is like your clothes. The thing that you most interact with every day is fabric, and it's something that we don't really give that much thought to, but every chemical every thread, where it comes from how that plant was fed, if it's linen or cotton or whatever else it was, in its plant life or in its synthetic life affects your microbiome on your skin for example, and right Unknown Speaker 15:00 Right. Yeah. So So coming from that idea of like this is like actually part an extension of your body your garments right? To how would you care for this like living garment if you had a living wardrobe. And some of it was made from mycelium, some of it was made from like, bacterial dyes. And like all of these different scopes Unknown Speaker 15:24 of research that a lot of people are doing right now, like there's a lot of research into bacterial dyes, and we've done some prototypes with that. But yeah, this was sort of like the first funded project that we got to fit into that living wardrobe. But the future wardrobe encompasses a sort of much larger, I think, Unknown Speaker 15:44 yeah, philosophy of dealing with interacting with clothing and fibers and fabric. Unknown Speaker 15:53 The, your, I don't even know what to call them, but like the LG shoulder pads, Unknown Speaker 16:00 like awesome, and then I saw Unknown Speaker 16:04 the the like backpack, like the tank that has, I think it was bioluminescent bacteria in it that glows in the dark. And it looks like something. I mean, it looks so sci fi, and futuristic. And something that you would, you know, wear to a crazy rave or like Burning Man or something like that. It looks awesome. But I'm curious if you both have like a favorite bio wearable that you've ever created. Or if you have an idea for a future project that you haven't worked on that you're super excited about. So one of the first projects that Firebase worked on outside of the university was them a project called biovet, which you which was a series of or a collection of glass jewelry pieces that hosted slime mold. And so the idea of this project was like that, that the user would have a little home kit, where they would look after their organism at home. So you'd have like, all the tools or the petri dishes, your Bunsen burner, Unknown Speaker 17:09 in a little box with a cute little box you could have in your house, and you keep the organism alive. And then whenever you are ready to use this jewelry piece to go out for an event or to wear on a day to day basis, you could then inoculate it within this glass vessel. Unknown Speaker 17:26 And depending on the conditions of growth, where you place the nutrients, and how much love and attention you give it, you could change the formations of the slime mold network. So the idea is that sort of like a collaboration between the user and the organism. And we've kind of considered it sort of like a bio Tamagotchi, because you're having to keep it alive and keep it going. Unknown Speaker 17:52 So yeah, it was it was a way of like, introducing people to this world of like, the micro micro organisms being something that are not disgusting and dirty, but actually can be really beautiful. But also like, you know, they play an important role in, in our lives. And so I think they should be appreciated in a way. So yeah, I think that was a Unknown Speaker 18:17 that was one of my favorite projects to work on, and was sort of this introduction into this philosophy that also kind of led on to the future wardrobe as well. Unknown Speaker 18:28 Yeah, and for I mean, it's hard to choose between your babies. Unknown Speaker 18:34 There's so many Unknown Speaker 18:37 so many babies, but yes, that definitely. I mean, I have a couple but I think the one as far as like wearables, wearables, the bio data sonification device that we did for future wardrobe, which we really didn't, we took on so much in that project, and in the showcase of it that the material took center stage, really, but we also did other things like this bio data sonification device, which is part of those crazy shoulder pads that are like made of corals sort of figure like, they're, they're representing coral, they're 3d printed PLA. But yeah, there's this whole part where we like wanted to create like a speculative language can we speak or interpret what the algae is saying and like, give them center stage, as if we're like, you know, wearing this, like, amazing garment made from algae. And then we have like a little microphone, which are these little electrodes that go inside of the little shoulder pads. And then, you know, they make they speak in like little sounds that are basically just like a reflection of what's going on in their biology and like their fluctuations of their like digestion, respiration and other things. And that's basically just turned into a sound through different software that we have. But yeah, I think that was one of like the cooler Unknown Speaker 20:00 prettier things that we've done as far as like, Unknown Speaker 20:04 yeah, wearables. And that reminds me of the electric skin project that you're working on, which absolutely blew my mind the first time I heard it. Can you talk about it? And what this is? Yes, the electric skin project that is also similarly to this Unknown Speaker 20:26 to the future wardrobe, we've been pretty lucky Jace and I have both been awarded the war with Partnership Project Grant twice to work on these very speculative projects, because definitely not all of the projects that are part of that grant. Unknown Speaker 20:42 European funded grant are that speculative, a lot of them are like pursuing products and other like things ready for market. Ours are like definitely more in the research stages, a lot of them. So we are thankful that we've been able to receive those to work on these. Unknown Speaker 21:03 Yeah, the electric skin is another project, we sort of started it. Unknown Speaker 21:08 For the biodesign challenge for women, we've all still to this day not met from everywhere in the world, some of us have met here and there. But yeah, working very decentralized, and working with technology developed in the University of Massachusetts, using the proteins that are created by this soil dwelling bacteria, called your backdoor sulfurreducens, which basically live so deep in anaerobic conditions that it creates a charge or a power by collecting X additional electrons that are in the air from hydrogen. So this is called like electron transfer. And that's how these proteins not the bacteria themselves, we don't use, like living bacteria on our material, we just use the proteins they create, which are like tiny cables or tiny wires that conduct these extra electrons to create a charge. So they they just happens with like ambient humidity, which means that like whatever. Unknown Speaker 22:09 Normally it definitely it works in like more humid places, like in Barcelona, we were able to get like, is 0.7 volts reading out of like a one centimeter by one centimeter etched cell, which is not a lot, which means that we have to put these in series put like tiny cells in series to create enough charge to light up for example, one LED that takes up like 3.5 volts. So yeah, that's where we're at. At this moment. We're Unknown Speaker 22:43 Yeah, ya searching other funding opportunities and like Expo opportunities in collaborations to, you know, think outside the box of the things that we've been doing. We've also collaborated a little bit with the University of Costa Rica and their Biomimicry Institute. So yeah, this can apply to so many different people, we really don't want to keep the project to ourselves, we want to expand and see what other modalities of thinkers and practitioners can do with this technology as well. And the crazy thing about this is that I went to a five college consortium, so it basically went to five different colleges and like a network and UMass was one of them. And I spent hundreds of hours in that same lab. And like, Unknown Speaker 23:33 many, many stories about that lab, and one of my mutual friends, I think he worked in that lab, but I met him at UMass. And he's working on bio batteries. And it's like such a Unknown Speaker 23:45 good connection. And, you know, it's such a fascinating space as we're further developing technology and we're requiring more energy loads, to, to basically, you know, sync with, with nature to be a little bit more sustainable in our approach, whether it's technology, whether it's, you know, Unknown Speaker 24:11 fashion and wearables whether it's architecture, whatever I think through biomimicry we can we can really create a more sustainable future and that I'm super hyped about that project. I think that's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's exactly as you say, like just and I think for Justin i and we've both kind of mentioned this, it's like, through this work, we've been like, sucked into this microscopic world and just to observe these teachers, these ancestors that are the algae, the bacteria, the fungi, what we've been able to learn and to just understand that there's like so many different universes happening at once the pleura verse is real. So yeah, just understanding that like, there's so Unknown Speaker 25:00 are many different ways that we can diversify. And I think that that's what, like the planet is doing all the time is just diversifying all the time. So it's wild that we just choose one thing. And we get so anchored to it, like example, fossil fuels. And yeah, that's why we're having the issues that we're having. Because we, if we just like leaned a little bit off of some of those and had some different options, yeah, it would make less less of a stress point in just one of those regions. Unknown Speaker 25:31 And Jessica, kind of moving Unknown Speaker 25:34 back into to mycelium and fungi, I see you got the funding for ongoing boards. Yep. Unknown Speaker 25:42 mycelial surfboard project, how's that coming? Unknown Speaker 25:47 Um, it's, it's going slowly. We were very fortunate enough to get some funding for it last year, which enabled us to upgrade our space and buy some new new tools and equipment to scale up the process a little bit. Unknown Speaker 26:03 We've got to a point now where we've produced a half of a full sales surfboard. And this has given us an opportunity to understand the protocols that we'll need and also the amount of material we'll need. Unknown Speaker 26:17 But at the moment, because the funding has run out, we've just we've got to a point where I've had to prioritize other projects, which are being funded. And this has been postponed now until until January, when we're hoping to get the full scale mold. Unknown Speaker 26:35 inoculate the full board, and then be able to run some tests to see like, how functional the board is on the water, how we will assign the glasses and then eventually start applying for more funding really? Unknown Speaker 26:52 Yeah, I mean, like, the idea is eventually like, if everything goes to plan, we could scale up the whole process and Unknown Speaker 27:00 develop a mushroom surfboard company. But I think yeah, yeah, there's this, which would be awesome. But there's a lot of things that need to be Unknown Speaker 27:11 finalized before we get to that stage. And yeah, there's definitely need, we definitely need some more Unknown Speaker 27:17 funding for that. Do you serve? Unknown Speaker 27:21 I have served actually, this is one of the reasons why I wanted to revisit this project because it started in August 2020. And it was just an idea. And then after going to Mexico with Katherine and doing some surfing there Unknown Speaker 27:42 later in the year also going to make a sorry, going to Portugal and surfing there. I was like, Damn this Unknown Speaker 27:50 the Algarve? I can't remember. Unknown Speaker 27:53 Oh, the island chain. Unknown Speaker 27:56 No, no, I was like south of Portugal. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Apparently Portugal's has the surf capital of Europe. So I'm, I'm very excited. And I I am looking forward to using one of your mycelial surfboards and surfing there. Unknown Speaker 28:16 Oh, yeah. No, yeah, we gotta have a reunion in Portugal than surf or Mexico. i Yeah, definitely. Either or, either or both. Let's do it. Let's do it. Unknown Speaker 28:30 Yeah. Unknown Speaker 28:33 So I've heard this keep going. Oh, sorry. I was just saying that we're hoping by by mid next year we'll have the surfboard like made at least at least one or two prototypes done. So ya know, there will be surfing on mushrooms next summer. Hell yeah. Unknown Speaker 28:53 Many many different definitions of that Unknown Speaker 28:59 so you know funding is a big topic that you know a lot of artists and a lot of people working with biology and and mushrooms fungi they deal with and it's kind of a big hurdle. Unknown Speaker 29:14 You both have gotten grants you both have done crowdfunding. Unknown Speaker 29:19 What's been the journey for funding your dreams? Unknown Speaker 29:23 Just you would you like to go first? Yeah, I can say I mean it's it's definitely difficult like I think I mentioned before coming out after graduating and sort of wanting to be in this space but there was not really many opportunities for a stable job or income. We sort of had to go and like look for the for the money ourselves. And so there are there are opportunities for like government grants and funding. Unknown Speaker 29:51 The ones we've been most successful with have been worth project which is an EU grant, which is now funded future war job and another Unknown Speaker 30:00 The project that I'm working on now called Pure hifi, which is with my partner and on the ladder, Sonia Sangha, and it's basically a mycelium, textile expression accessories. But, you know, it's been like we've, we've applied to many different applications, and it's a lot of work. Unknown Speaker 30:23 And you can't really guarantee that you're ever going to get that funding either. So Unknown Speaker 30:28 it's an it's a very good process. It's, it's great for really understanding your project and developing the idea further, whilst you're answering all these questions for the applications. But again, it's like you just don't know if you're gonna get it. Right. So yeah, it's it's tough, definitely tough Unknown Speaker 30:48 to rely solely on that. So like, you know, other other ways of receiving funds is during workshops, Unknown Speaker 30:57 permission pieces. I'm also a personal trainer, I also am a landlord. So there's like, a few hustles here and there, you know, that help fund our research? Unknown Speaker 31:11 Nice. Yeah, I would say Unknown Speaker 31:14 I would say this. Yes. Like, applications for design grants. And research grants are wildly complex. These days, they're more and more like, Unknown Speaker 31:27 like almost designing your entire. Unknown Speaker 31:30 They like require videos, they require like, renders, they require budgets, they're very, very intricate, like they take a long, long time. And it's like, just us like, not always Are you guaranteed, obviously, that you're gonna get funding. It's a very small world, also, the bio design world is, there's a lot of competition. So yeah, also having a diverse range of places that you can look for funds. Like if you can teach workshops or like host people at SB Lt. Gov, for example, as well, that has been one of the things is like having a hub Unknown Speaker 32:08 where people can also work and like rent the space out or doing expos. Having Yeah, like custom pieces and collaborations with other people. That also has helped. Unknown Speaker 32:23 And this kind of a two part question, but how do you balance being playful and experimenting artistically? Unknown Speaker 32:32 And also, the reality of having bills to pay in a capitalistic world? And you know, you got to scale production? And then part two of that question is like, you know, Unknown Speaker 32:44 how do you create community where you're, you're sharing knowledge, we're also dealing with competition and people that are hiding information or kind of being a little cutthroat? How do you balance these kinds of two worlds? Unknown Speaker 33:04 Yes. Unknown Speaker 33:08 Well, I can go, I can go if you'd like. Unknown Speaker 33:14 Okay, go go ahead. Unknown Speaker 33:17 I mean, I mean, one thing that's great about being like freelance is you can have like flexibility in your schedule, so you can pick and choose sort of what projects you work on. Or Unknown Speaker 33:29 you can dedicate time to be more experimental and playful with the work that you're doing. Unknown Speaker 33:38 But of course, like, you have to really carve that time out for yourself and that's the difficult part I think, for sure. Unknown Speaker 33:46 Like, you know, in the end, the priority sometimes just has to be what's going to make you money and that's unfortunate. Unknown Speaker 33:52 But Unknown Speaker 33:55 But yeah, like for example, with like, the pure Hi Fi project, it's, it's something that like, Unknown Speaker 34:01 where we have the opportunity to be more playful and be more design based in this part. In this research, which is really, really nice. I'm really enjoying kind of going back to that that like more playful and experimental side as well. Whereas maybe the uncle board has been something that has actually been much more like production and like just more like research I guess, rather than experimental. Right, um, Unknown Speaker 34:29 remember the second part of the question but like, like creating community and sharing information and and, you know, dealing with people that are very competitive and don't want to share information and want to be more cutthroat Unknown Speaker 34:48 you know what, I actually find that a lot of the fungi community are super open and very, like willing to help each other. Unlike some, maybe some other industries that Unknown Speaker 35:00 have been like exposed to before. So for example, like, there are discord, chats, and telegram chats and stuff, then people are just like sharing information all the time with each other, which is great. Unknown Speaker 35:15 And maybe the, you know, the competition, or one of the challenges, probably, for me more than covered was working with myco composites and the patents that Ecovative have had in the past. But they've recently opened their patents to Europe. Which means that now we can work with that material without without a license, which is absolutely amazing. For someone who's like, thinking about developing a surfboard company using that material. Unknown Speaker 35:46 And so, Unknown Speaker 35:48 yeah, I mean, I haven't had too many challenges with this. Unknown Speaker 35:53 This idea of Unknown Speaker 35:56 competition, I guess. But yeah, like I said, I think people are just very, very open and very sharing, very willing to share in this space. Unknown Speaker 36:05 That's awesome. Unknown Speaker 36:07 Yeah, I think the same like I would say, like even that's one of the things that drew me more to working specifically more with fungi is that I find like the community a lot more welcoming, and, and a lot more open about like, sharing processes. Unknown Speaker 36:25 Whereas like, I would say, in bio design, and just like coming from, Unknown Speaker 36:32 in general. Yeah, because it's very product focused. And like patent focus, there's, yeah, less less of that. available information readily out there. Like even developing things like the bio plastics for future wardrobe. And, yeah, it was like a lot of research of like, a lot of different industries, like molecular cooking, Unknown Speaker 37:02 culinary practices, or like biomedical papers, and not a lot on like what people were doing in that design world, which is like, obviously, people need to get paid. And that's like, where the patents come in. We've also had collaborations with, for example, with electric skin, a licensing agreement for the bacteria protocols, which are property of the scientists who develop that. Unknown Speaker 37:34 In at UMass, but then like, it's tricky, because then like, for example, we've developed like now different protocols, and like, unless we patent those, then yeah, becomes like messy, like whose tech is what like, yeah, it's it's been an learning process. I've learned a lot this year about the ins and outs of like, incorporating these kinds of like more innovation based research companies, pitching to like Angel investors. And yeah, it's like a whole other world that I never had the language for us. Somebody coming from like costuming and from design. And from like, just bio, I think we don't get taught these things. frustrate. Right, right. Yeah, it's a whole game that you have to play. It's so funny. I brought my employee Elisa to the Telluride mushroom festival. And she has a background in, you know, the music industry and advertising and things like that. And so Unknown Speaker 38:36 we're there and she's like, Why is everyone so nice? Unknown Speaker 38:40 And she's like, I'm just used to going to these, like, you know, music events and things like that. And everyone's like, has these big egos and you got to pay for like, VIP dinner. And everyone's like, very defensive and all this stuff. And she's like, everyone's just so nice and open. Like, this is wild to experience. You know, it's not everyone in in the industry. And definitely, in the psychedelic space, there's an influx of people with questionable intentions in the mushroom space coming in. But, you know, for the most part, people are really nice and open and willing to share information and, and that's really refreshing. And I hear it from a lot of people coming from other industries that are like, Oh my god, the mushroom scene is like really great. Like this is awesome. So it's definitely a breath of fresh air for sure. Unknown Speaker 39:31 And I'm going more into myco materials and sharing information. Can you talk about fungal matters? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 39:42 So, so fungal matters is an online or was an in person course that Katherine and I set up last year. It started off as a four day intensive workshop. Unknown Speaker 39:56 And then we recorded most of that content during that period, which was Unknown Speaker 40:00 Very intense period and uploaded to put together a course which is in four sections. Unknown Speaker 40:09 And it basically covers like the basics of my mushroom cultivation from an myco materials and micro composites. So you can learn about Unknown Speaker 40:21 different or like how to create a gar plates Unknown Speaker 40:25 to how to make a mold that would work for myco composite material. Unknown Speaker 40:33 And, yeah, it's, it's, I think it kind of, we put it together because like, Unknown Speaker 40:39 during our journey, we there was many different resources of how to how to grow mushrooms, or how to cultivate mycelium, but never really anything Unknown Speaker 40:50 for growing mycelium for micro composites, and so we had to like gather all this information and, and learn by doing. So we thought it would be an interesting or valuable thing to put together a course a condensed course for future myco designers, for them to be able to well for us to be able to share our experiences and also solutions for some of the challenges challenges that people might run into during their mushroom journey. Mushroom material journey. Unknown Speaker 41:23 Yeah, Unknown Speaker 41:27 I was gonna just say like that, unlike other courses that you might see out there, or like information about growing, you know, like cubes or like different types of mushrooms, gourmet mushrooms as well. We are more focused like this is really for like artists, makers, designers, we're more focused on mycelium. We're not really focused on fruiting any, I mean, you can fruit, the structures, and we like talk about that briefly. But we're more interested in like the material aspects. So like what different substrates can do for like your shaping of like, if you want to sculpt something, or if you want to make something that is like that has more floatability for example, to make like a surfboard base. Or if you want to make something that is like a membrane. What are the parameters that you need to think of like from a design perspective to work with mycelium as a living material, so it's a little bit of a different lens, then when you think about like just growing mushrooms and like the setups that you need, Unknown Speaker 42:33 as well as like, from a design perspective how to make molds for example, which is like not the same as if you were working with silicone or with plaster or with other things like that. Unknown Speaker 42:47 And for someone new to biomaterials, myco materials, what does the course cover? I know you have different modules. Unknown Speaker 42:56 I I don't want to give too much away. But um, I don't know if you can go from like, Lesson One to the last one. Like what, what what should people expect? Totally, yes, yes. Yes, we we split it up into four different modules, because people may be coming from different levels of experience and like some of the information might be redundant. And yeah, so for that reason, we split it up in four, we also just think it's like more digestible to have like four different or grouped together modules depending on the themes. Unknown Speaker 43:32 I want to say that in each module, we have videos of myself and just that we took through that intensive period that just was talking about of these four days. Unknown Speaker 43:43 But also, we have some mushroom meditations because we like to have these in our in person workshops where like, we want to drop into the idea of like this interspecies like worlds and like working with materials in a mindful way. So we also have some of these other like aspects of mindfulness in design. But yes, in module one, this is like a super basic module of like an introduction to mycology jargon. Stuff that people who are coming from an art or design background might not be aware of, for instance, just simply like what the lifecycle of a mushroom is, what's the difference between mycelium and a mushroom that might be really basic and obvious to people in this podcast and in this world, but like people coming from Art and Design, maybe not so much. Unknown Speaker 44:36 We talk about like an ad basic ad home setup, like really, really basic how you can start this like really DIY in any kind of space. Because when we started it was like just that didn't like I think it was like an old elevator that was turned into a bio lab. So you know from any, any space that you have, how you can start working with this the basics of what you need. Unknown Speaker 44:59 We all Unknown Speaker 45:00 So talk about nature based design and that in that section, so like what it means to understand and study like different personas, characteristics of different organisms or different fungi, and understanding how to translate that into design. So this is like a bit like biomimicry, as well like understanding what the role of fungi are out in the real world and our planet, and how some of those properties might work for the design that you're thinking of. Right. So that's, that's basically the first one we also give some historical context to like ama do or like Arctic mycelial, pouches? Yeah, things that we've been doing with fungi when with Mongo materials for like, hundreds of years. And you know how we're just kind of like rediscovering that now. So I think that's also important give people like a bit of context to like this emerging industry. Then the second second module, we talk about, like, Unknown Speaker 46:01 how to prep cultures and like, different ag are, Unknown Speaker 46:07 how to make ag our plates how to make spawn, which you can totally work without, if you'd like if you just always purchase myceliated substrates like Ecovative bags, for example, ready for use. That is totally valid. And you can totally skip this module if that's the case. But for us, and like I think, for other people who want more control of their design parameters, if you want to work with different substrates than what is out there in any COVID of grobag, or in whatever other ready to fruit bag that you might buy. Unknown Speaker 46:41 Yeah, it's important that you know how to do these things from like the beginning. So how to choose the type of fungi that you want to work with the type of mycelium that you want to work with. Because they have different properties. Depending on what the fungi like look like out there in the world, that mycelium looks different. There are actually different types of mycelium that you can work with. So we sort of, yeah, this is more for people who like want more control of their designs and what they're studying what they're producing. Unknown Speaker 47:13 And then in module three, we talk about composites. So yeah, we talked about different substrates and additives. Because also, unlike, well, not so much unlike but yes, we have a whole different also palette of additives that we can use for like sculpting, and helping us like create different shapes. When we're using myco materials that is different from like additives that you might just use to like boost growth of mushrooms if you're just doing mushroom cultivation, for example. So, in we talked about making molds, versus sculpting, like different parameters that you need to know for both of those, and a brief introduction to membranes or flexible materials. And in the last module, Unknown Speaker 48:03 it's lots but there Yeah, that's why we like segment them into four different ones. We talk about Unknown Speaker 48:12 Yeah, we do a little demonstration of like using a grow it yourself kit for molding and sculpting. And then like the final things that you need to think about like incubation of that material growth faces in the in the finishing. So like how would you dehydrate a small piece versus like a huge, massive sculpture or surfboard or? Yeah, how do you finish them? Do you just like leave the mycelium as it is? Or do you add resins to sand? Like what what are the things that you can do to finish off that piece or to create something larger? Unknown Speaker 48:47 Yeah, basically, and I think we do a little bonus section in there as well of like really cool fungal projects that inspire us and what's happening in like the 3d printed fabrication scene or like incorporating electronics. So yeah, more thinking of like the future of fungal fungal futures. Nice. Yeah, the video teasers look so clean they look so awesome. So congrats on that. It looks amazing. And Katherine, you gave me a good laugh with Jessica you're like yeah, so we can make materials that are fire resistant. And Katherine, you like tried to light Unknown Speaker 49:30 I was loving that. Lighting. That was fairly I'm on fire, man. I know. You're pyromaniac. Unknown Speaker 49:40 That's, that's funny. Yeah, that was great. Unknown Speaker 49:44 So we love doing that together with also our friend Benny. Oh, yeah, that was I had just Unknown Speaker 49:53 No, I was gonna say it's also worth mentioning that from that, but from that from the chorus Unknown Speaker 50:00 We're also putting together a booklet which is covers all the course information plus a little bit extra, Unknown Speaker 50:07 which we will be hoping to release in early next year. But it's really, it's a really nice little booklet that we were putting together. Nice. Nice, awesome. And how has working with bio and myco materials shaped your outlook on life? And what are the main lessons that you've learned from these working with these organisms? Unknown Speaker 50:33 Well, for me, I think working with mycelium has definitely taught me a lot of patience. Unknown Speaker 50:42 It's taught me how to be more strategic with my time and management of my time. So I have to plan things like in advance to know when something might be fruiting when something might be optimum time for. Unknown Speaker 50:56 For molding. Unknown Speaker 51:00 And Unknown Speaker 51:02 yeah, I think for me, like the practice of working, like Unknown Speaker 51:08 doing like a mycelium like a transfer or remoulding a material or just working with my hands with the living organism, I find it super meditative. So it's definitely it always, like brings me to a place where I'm like, grounded and calm and peaceful. So like, amongst all the chaos of like, everyday life, like this is a time where I'm just like, Okay, I'm very present in the moment. And so I'm really grateful that like, I have those opportunities working with mycelium and and I'm constantly being like, reminded Unknown Speaker 51:42 that these things are like living organisms. And, you know, we have to respect them. And, you know, we might want to put them to act in a certain way. But actually, we're not always going to get the outcome that we expect, right. So. Unknown Speaker 51:56 Yeah, it's like, it's kind of like working or collaborating. Unknown Speaker 52:02 When I'm working with these organisms. Unknown Speaker 52:05 Yeah, I would say for me, it's Unknown Speaker 52:10 I would say for me is it's similar to what Justice I'm describing. Just like understanding that these organisms have agency they have likes, they have dislikes, they have personalities, and that they just want to grow honestly and flourish and like also, how can we be like reciprocal to them? So like, if I'm working with slime molds, for example, can I release some back into the wilds? Can if I work with like mushrooms? Can I also fruit a little bit and are like keep the keep the mycelium keep the genetics rolling? Like how can we help each other? And how can we drop into these like more subtle ways of knowing and like more subtle, like, ways of interacting, which I think is also part of like, sometimes using sensors or like smells or tactile things like touching gooey materials, touching mycelium understanding that through all those interactions, there's a different information that's being exchanged between different organisms, one human one non human. And yeah, like being able to step a little bit outside of the narrative of just like, what is it that I want? What is it that I think the world should look like? And understand that there's, there's been a long, long, long history of narratives on this earth that are more bacterial than human. And that's super humbling. Yeah, seeing like, all of these other relationality is like, I'm not really a human, I'm actually more non human than human. And so respecting all of these, like, organisms, as my grandparents as my ancestors as my guides, and asking them also for like, guidance is important, I think as well. I love that. Yeah. I always say that we're like a public transit for micro organisms. Unknown Speaker 54:11 You know, we're, we're just giving them a ride. And, you know, we're just the public public transit for billions of different organisms. And yeah, it's, it's so easy to create an ego like, oh, yeah, I'm a human. It's like, well, mostly not. Unknown Speaker 54:30 What we talked about funding, we talked about, you know, the difficulties of balancing, you know, work and play and besides those two things, what what has been the hardest part for you working with these organisms? Unknown Speaker 54:49 And mean, Unknown Speaker 54:51 for me, it's definitely one of the biggest challenges is like Unknown Speaker 54:56 contamination. Unknown Speaker 55:00 I think a lot of people experience in the mushroom world. Unknown Speaker 55:04 But like, as my practice gets better, as the equipment that I use gets better. Unknown Speaker 55:09 That's definitely becoming less and less of an issue, thank God. But of course, like I'm, you know, I've been working with Unknown Speaker 55:16 small scale products and or developing small scale products. So now that have gone to developing a surfboard, Unknown Speaker 55:27 everything has changed, you know, like the scaling up process itself has become super challenging. Because you need to have storage of material, you need to have pressure cookers or pesto pasteurization systems large enough to, to be able to take so much substrate, incubation space, all of these kinds of things. So that's definitely been, I think, quite challenging for me, or for us. Unknown Speaker 55:52 Which is, you know, where the, I guess the funding comes in to be able to find space and new equipment for that? Unknown Speaker 56:02 Yeah, I would say, similarly, like, the scaling up is always from the prototype stage. And like, proof of concept stage is a lot more difficult, especially because a lot of these processes are just being made by us as we go along. And some other researchers out there in the world that are publishing things as well, that we're referencing and resourcing, but like, the machines, for example, are not all a you know, they're like conventionally made for other materials and other processes. So we're trying to like fit these very different materials that are living that have different like molecular structures into machinery that is out there right now for processing, like different textiles or different like myco composites, for example. Or like electronics when it comes to like the electric skin. So yeah, we've also like, Unknown Speaker 56:57 had some times resource to like making custom machines. And for example, in the future wardrobe project, we like, made a little extruder, so that we could make yarn out of this material, because like that does not exist out there. So it's, yeah, we're working with some, like very emergent industry. So there's always gonna be things that are just, we're making up as we go along. They don't exist quite yet. Unknown Speaker 57:23 Yeah, it's, it's such a unique thing to witness, like, certain countries are so much further along in technology and things like that, when it comes to the mycology. And I had a chance to go to a mushroom conference in China. And like, there's so many companies that had like full catalogs of every single piece of equipment that you could possibly imagine, at any scale, you know, and they're like, yeah, we'll set up a massive mushroom farm. That would be, you know, 10 times as big as the biggest farm in the US, like, overnight, you know, and it's like, yeah, just pick and choose from the catalog, you know what I mean? And then to go back to the US and seeing all these people, obviously, you can't just buy this machinery, or you have to ship it from overseas. So to see engineers, kind of, like Jerry Rig, their own machinery, it's so amazing, I had a chance to do a tour of Unknown Speaker 58:23 I won't say their name, but this this big, myco materials, company, and they were using like a Jheri rate asparagus blancher to sterilize stuff. And then they were using like a piece of machinery from Hershey's, to rapidly cool it down. And then like, all of these pieces of machinery, and they were like, it was fully automated on a conveyor belt, and they're able to sterilize their material and inoculate it all in, like, a couple of minutes. It's like, wait, what? And they're like, Yeah, we're not mycologist we're just engineers. And this makes sense. You know, why? And seeing so many like pure mycologist kind of struggle a lot because they they go by the quote, unquote, rulebook that they think is how you're supposed to, you know, grow mushrooms, or work with these materials. And it really, I love this cross industry, collaboration of people that are thinking outside of the box, and are like, Well, why can't we do things differently? And they're, they're like, Well, I have I have experience in this industry, why can't we just bring that information over here, you know, and that's how we push forward and that's that's how we make this change, which is just super exciting. And talking about excitement, like what, what gets you out of bed in the morning? Like what is the most rewarding aspect of working with these organisms and making these materials and you know, what? What excites you the most? Unknown Speaker 59:55 Honestly, like people's reactions to Unknown Speaker 1:00:00 or to the amazing organisms, I wouldn't even say it's not like necessarily the work. I think it's like even even like just talking about, like the work that I do or that we do or like the organisms that we study. It's just so inspiring. I don't know, I think people leave like, bewildered, amazed in such high hopes and high spirits. And yeah, that's, I think, for me, what keeps it going? Unknown Speaker 1:00:30 Yeah, I completely agree with that. It's just It's seeing people's faces when they like, when they touch the material when they when they figure out what it is, or this could be, you know, kombucha, it could be the bio plastics on the mycelium or whatever it is, people are just so amazed by it. And like to understand that this came from the earth that it was grown, and it can be completely compostable. And it's completely sustainable. I think it always blows people's minds, because they're so used to just like, everyday normal materials. Unknown Speaker 1:01:02 But another thing that for me is definitely something that excites me a lot is just actually just seeing the mycelium and the mushrooms grow. Like, without expectation, sometimes I come and I'm like, looking at my plates and like, These things are so beautiful. You know, like, that's like, I just love it. Like it really really excites me. Unknown Speaker 1:01:22 So yeah, I think Unknown Speaker 1:01:24 probably those things. Unknown Speaker 1:01:27 I loved how you explained. It's like a bio. What? Terrick Terrick? Terrick Gottschee? What is the what is that? What is it via Tamagotchi? Yeah, I remember in elementary school, we had this girl who brought one of those in, and she was so excited about it. She shared with the whole class of what it was. And then like three days later, she comes into class and she's crying. And we're like, oh, she's like, Oh, my God, she died. Unknown Speaker 1:02:01 It's so good. Yeah, I've never had one personally. It was That's my only experience with them. So yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:02:08 As a kid, and I used to Yeah, I used to die a lot. Unknown Speaker 1:02:16 Yeah, yes. So now you're reliving your childhood with with bio version of them. Exactly. And keeping them alive, hopefully. Unknown Speaker 1:02:27 Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, limited, limited contamination. So Unknown Speaker 1:02:32 I don't know if you want to share, but are there any future projects that you're working on that you're super excited about? Unknown Speaker 1:02:42 And you can keep it secret if you want, and just have people follow you and then see when it comes out. Unknown Speaker 1:02:49 And at the moment, like I'm personally trying to finish off the couple of projects I'm working on at the moment, which is the pure Hi Fi Unknown Speaker 1:03:01 and the ongo boards, because they're two pretty big projects. After that, I am considering maybe even leaving Barcelona for a little bit. So yeah, I'm not sure I'm any anything is possible. But uh, yeah, where are you going right now? Unknown Speaker 1:03:20 I think I might go back to London, just as a base and then travel from there. Because I feel like I needed to do like a bit of traveling. I've missed that. In the last few years. I would love to come to Portugal, I want to go to Mexico. I want to go to India. Like this is a big list of faces. I need the world tour. Let's go. Oh, yes. On a surfboard on a machine so forth. And I say yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:03:44 let's see. Unknown Speaker 1:03:49 Exactly. Unknown Speaker 1:03:52 And yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:03:56 What about you, for me, I would say, Unknown Speaker 1:04:00 for me, I would say I have been working and studying a little bit more. Unknown Speaker 1:04:08 On the DNA level of things, definitely electric skin that's like a baby that I think is like just being nurtured by all of us and will take you know, a long time we have different like Expo opportunities and just are thinking outside the box with what it can look like. So excited for that. But definitely just seeing what we can do with like, DNA barcoding. And like I have one one particular project that I've worked on with that and that I have plans to keep expanding is Unknown Speaker 1:04:42 yeah, like analyzing different DNA from from the soil from water and recording what species we find there so that we can have like a sort of log of information or library or archive of all of these different species that may or may not be or Unknown Speaker 1:05:00 around and like 3040 50 years from now. So, yeah, I think that's like some work that really inspires me as well to in the future, what the future might hold. Yeah. And that's, that's similar to the water warriors DNA capsule project that you're working on. Yes. Yeah. It's it's like part of that project to just like in a bigger, bigger scope. But yeah, making some jewelry pieces that have like embedded DNA from different organisms sort of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see Unknown Speaker 1:05:35 in like, 10,000 years, your your skeleton being uncovered by future alien species that take over the planet, and they find these little capsules, you know, and they figure out what the earth was, like, 10,000 years ago, I think that would be really cool. Unknown Speaker 1:05:53 Amazing, I would love the aliens to have my piece of my jewelry. That'd be interstellar marketing. I think you already are an alien. So I think I think we're past that. Unknown Speaker 1:06:06 So it both of you had unlimited team funding, resources, equipment, etc. What would you do? And why? Unknown Speaker 1:06:18 Too many things. Unknown Speaker 1:06:22 I think, well, just I think because because I'm working on the surfboard project, I think it makes most sense, if I had the resources and the funding for it to set up a little or big mushroom farm production center outside of the city. Unknown Speaker 1:06:39 Could be Spain could be somewhere also, that's warm. Unknown Speaker 1:06:44 And that would have that would be able to produce Unknown Speaker 1:06:47 the substrate and also fabricate the surfboards, and then also have like a little research unit that I would be able to, you know, play be more experimental, be a bit more playful Unknown Speaker 1:07:00 with the material, but also maybe explore different, like other different types of materials. Unknown Speaker 1:07:07 And yeah, just know, I'd have like a nice team of people being able to do like, the long the long quotes, and I'd get to do more experimental things, I think. Unknown Speaker 1:07:18 And this would all be a mobile lab on a mycelial sailboat as you travel the world. Yes. Being nice, nice, equipped with mycelial surfboards when you stop at different islands and things like that. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:07:33 That would be the dream. Unknown Speaker 1:07:35 Unless you're dreaming it happen. Make it happen. I'm gonna make it happen as a goal right there. Unknown Speaker 1:07:43 How about you, Catherine? I have for me, I would say I would like to also have a amazing hub and like just be as experimental and weird as possible. That would be amazing. But also like honestly, if I had like, unlimited, all of those things, I would just try to set up and aura just partner with people already doing amazing work like reforesting re habilitative soils like planting corals. So I would just be like a professional volunteer for all these people like John Todd making eco machines to like filter out water. Water is so important. There's so much like polluted water around the world. I just feel like yeah, just I would recruit a bunch of people to help and just have this be like their life career volunteer life career of just rehabilitating the planet and it's been done in other places. So it's like the lowest plateau was all rehabilitated by just people being paid to do it so we can do it I know we can. Well both both of these dreams are gonna come true. I mean, both of you are up to so many projects and an amazing work already so and you're both young and have a full life ahead of you. So I'm I'm excited to watch your journey and route you on and for other people that want to follow your journey and where are you on where where can people follow your work? Unknown Speaker 1:09:16 Probably Instagram is the best way to follow us. Like most updated version. For me, I'm on formulized curiosities and also fungal matters and also bio doc babes on Instagram. Unknown Speaker 1:09:34 Yes, we have many words in tacular. As I've mentioned before with our projects, we have many many sub sites many branchings But yeah, we the fungal matters project can be accessed through teachable so teachable.com and then fungal slash fungal matters and or fungal dash matters.teachable.com just verifying that and Unknown Speaker 1:10:00 Yeah, Instagram, same for fungal matters. And we also have a few of those intro videos from our course on YouTube that people can also check out. And then yeah, more more Instagram, if you want to just message us, I think it's like the quickest, slimy futures is my little project. Unknown Speaker 1:10:25 And, yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:10:28 amazing. And I used to ask this question to every guest, and now I pick and choose who I feel like would give a really good answer. And so I feel like YouTube would give an amazing answer. If mushrooms or fungi had the microphone and could say one thing to the whole human race, what would they say? Unknown Speaker 1:10:50 Let's grow together. Unknown Speaker 1:10:54 Love it. Unknown Speaker 1:10:57 I think they would say something like, just breathe. We got this or remember, I think also remember would be it's probably something that they're trying to tell us all the time. But yeah, definitely agreed. Unknown Speaker 1:11:15 It's been such an honor to bring you to on the show and talk about the a million projects that you're up to you're never bored. Unknown Speaker 1:11:24 I love it. And I'm, I'm rooting you to on. And hopefully, you know, this brings you to more connections and around the world. And I'm just super excited for everything that you you too, are up to So congrats. Unknown Speaker 1:11:42 Thank you so much, Alex. It's been a pleasure being on the show. Unknown Speaker 1:11:46 Yes, honestly, incredibly grateful humbled to be part of this community. We've been both listening to your podcast for quite some years. So thanks for having us. Oh, yeah, I'm looking forward to our surf trip. Unknown Speaker 1:12:03 Okay, well, and thank you everyone for tuning in and tuning in to another episode of the mushroom revival podcast wherever you are on on planet earth or elsewhere. You know, aliens are real now. So Unknown Speaker 1:12:15 they're probably tuning in from a spaceship somewhere hopefully, and including Katherine and maybe Jessica to you might be an alien to Unknown Speaker 1:12:25 that. Unknown Speaker 1:12:27 Yeah, keep spreading the word you know, it goes a long way. If you love the show, we don't have a Patreon or any way that you can donate. So leave a review tell your friends and family. You can check out mushroom revival.com which is our mushroom supplement brand. And we have certified organic functional mushroom capsules, tinctures, powders, gummies they're all delicious, super potent. And you know gift for yourself. We have a special coupon code just for listeners of the show. And that coupon code is pod treat for a surprise discount code. We also have a giveaway going on just for listeners of this podcast. So that link is in the description where you can enter we give products away once a month. And so you can win some free goodies. We also have, you know a bunch of free resources on our site from blog posts to ebooks that you can learn about everything from functional mushrooms to psilocybin to cooking and biomaterials, everything and Unknown Speaker 1:13:34 yeah, all of our show notes are on there as well for a podcast and also my new book is on there the little book of mushrooms that you can check out it's a really cute kind of coffee table book that covers 75 different mushrooms so check that out as well. And as always, much love me this bores you with you Transcribed by https://otter.ai
