Mycelial Coffins with Loop Biotech
The Loop Living Cocoon is the world's first living coffin designed by Bob Hendrikx of Loop Biotech.
We talk about:
- How the mycelial coffin is made
- The laws and regulations behind different burial practices
- The environmental impacts of these mycelial coffins versus traditional burial techniques
- Death and the grieving process
- Why most of humans are afraid of death and decay
- Cultural practices of burials, from mummification to coffins to burning and more
- How psychedelic mushrooms play into the preparation for death
- and much more.
0:18 Welcome, welcome. You're listening to the mushroom revival podcast. If you are a longtime listener, welcome back. If you are a first time listener, welcome. I'm your host, Alex Dora. And this podcast, we go into the deep dark depths of the fungal world, all the exciting things that mushrooms do in our world. And we bring on experts from all across the globe to geek out with us and get super excited. So today, we're bringing on Bob Hendricks from loop biotech to go into death and decay with fungi. Hey, Bob. Hey, I'm doing great. How you doing? Good. Good. Why don't you give the listeners a little one on one on who you are and what you're up to? Yeah, nice. So I'm Bob Hendrix. Live from Amsterdam, the Netherlands. I'm the founder of loop biotech. And we grow living coffins made from mycelium that actually enable humans to enrich life after death. Hmm. And what is your grand vision with loop biotech? What are you hoping to do with this company? And where do you see it taking off in the future? Yeah, great question. I think we started this from, like, the parasitic behavior we have as a human species that we see the natural world a supermarket and thinking, hey, what if we no longer kill organisms, but actually keep them alive and collaborate with them and sort of create this new living world in which our everyday objects are living organisms. So imagine the living home a t shirt that gross went to light emitting ology to replace our street life, and then of course, the living coffin. So we're building the new world. And the first chapter is the mycelium coffin. And with the mycelium coffin, we really want to turn people into compost again, for example, when a deer in the forest dies, it's decayed, that becomes food for the rest of the forest, it becomes part of the cycle of life. And I'm not sure how we ended up here as humans that we have this crazy industrial system through sort of, yeah, they said, collaborate with the death or how we want to mention it, but I think it can be much more natural and that's what we're trying to achieve. So turning humans into trees to be really precise. Yeah, love it. And for people who have never seen, you know, images or videos of your coffins, can you kind of give a brief How It's Made episode of maker coffins? What do they look like? How do they function? Yeah, exactly. That's a great question we often sort of compare with with baking a cake or just cooking in general. So we grow the mushrooms on substrate of hemp, and then we actually fill up a mold. So the mold actually is sort of the product design can be various shapes and forms as you can imagine, we put in the mycelium and then in only seven days, all the mycelium starts growing, actually eating the substrate of hand, and thereby creating like this three dimensional network gluing all the particles together. And after the seven days, you take it out of the mold, and you have sort of this mycelium based comp inside, which is also a material but it's also a living organism. And it looks whitish, we grow a skin on top of it. So that's pure mycelium. So when you dry it, it's almost like velvet, like softness. So emotionally for as you can imagine, for a funeral. It's pretty nice. And then to be really practical person gets laid into it. The coffin is functional, like any how you would use any other coffin can actually hold 200 kilos, I suppose pretty strong, and then gets in the grave. And then the big difference happens because the mycelium will get reactivated material due to the water and will actually start help to facilitate the decomposition of the human body. I really help the other side, the soil there. So it's a very polluted soil due to the various generations before and actually neutralize toxins in the earth and increase the biodiversity. So yeah, that's it. I had I think you're one of the only founders of a company who's never tried their own product yet. 4:32 Maybe one day maybe one day let's hope it's far in the future. But it was really weird because I'm totally not like oh, I want to build coffins for me. I actually come from architecture. Yeah, I always joke like my house got smaller and smaller. 4:49 I started this way like okay, we're going to build living architecture and you're going to grow your new bathroom and when we move to the it was a we just put a bacteria on it and it just dissolves 5:00 Yeah. And then I started thinking about it. Okay, but what if I live in my home and I actually die. And I was like, oh my god, the home will eat me will recycle me and you can imagine how to respond. And so we ended up here. What fascinates you with death? Did you have a death in the family that really rocked you and you know, made you really dive deeper into this subject? It is a very taboo subject, especially in the United States. I don't know how it is in the Netherlands. But it seems like most humans are pretty terrified of death. And it's something that most people don't think about on a daily basis. So to make a whole business surrounding it, you obviously have to think about it. 24/7. So what kind of sparked that natural curiosity? Yeah, I think that's a great question. Just as I said, it's, for me, I didn't go into it, because I really liked death. For me, it was a more fascination about the natural world, and about funghi and how they would like the world's biggest recycler, and recycling, organic, but also data getting better. And I was like, Okay, how do we go back to life? How do we go back to Earth? And think there was for me the spark and thinking, okay, what can mushroom mycelium eat us to? And how would it work. And I just told myself, again, we're going to build one prototype. And this was when I just graduated, all my friends were having normal jobs. And I was like growing a cough and made of mushrooms, and also fascinated by the organisms growth and thought, hey, if I could just give one person the opportunity to become compost, after there, then that message will be spread, and people will think of themselves as compost, and think there will be super important to share. Yes, if we can see ourselves as part of the natural world, then we can shift or change, change your behavior, because I think that's indeed what you said, like the taboo, it's huge. We don't consider that as part of life. And we consider that our it's also in our system right now. It's like the end, there's nothing to it. It's a one stop shop, I think it's much more beautiful to have the emphasis on the loop of life, and to actually continue life. And it's a more hopeful perspective, way ahead, thank you for being in this status. But now we give your body to new nutrients for new life to flourish. And I think it says a lot about, like things super interesting to look at a culture. And so you can How did it view death? And what that says about their current culture? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I don't know if I'd be curious to hear your perspective on this. But it seems like we're the only living organism that really tries to protect the dead. I've heard stories of elephant herds, you know, when they're, every year, they stopped by the place in which one member and they and they cry. And so that's the only, there might be other instances, but we're kind of the only species that I know of that makes it inactive ritual and tries to protect the decay of the body, you know, and monetization is really huge. And like most people, when they think of mummies they think of Egypt. But, you know, they did it in Peru, actually, mummification has been pretty popular in every single continent on planet Earth, Africa, Asia, Europe, North, South America, Oceania, I mean, mummies have popped up everywhere. And it's, I'm curious, why do you think us as humans? Why are we the only ones who try to protect this natural cycle from happening? And that's interesting. I think my answer would be the ego. So because we identify with our body, we want to preserve it. So we feel if our body is not there, we are not there. So nice to see ourselves. It's not part of the ecosystem. Yeah. 9:00 Go system. Exactly. Exactly. And I think I think that's, I don't know, I feel like that's it. But it also wanted to say that in terms of, it's just super weird that we have the system that sort of really is preventing decay, sound like literally, in the Netherlands, you're not allowed to when somebody dies to just put them in the forest and just let them be and whatever nature does, like you would get fined for that. Really? Yeah, just like highly illegal, but if I put like, cans of Coke on the streets, then I also get to find necessarily this persona, say my one mag, it's more like, I think that's maybe the same on a lot of mags like if you put a can of Coke, you're thrown on the street, you get fined for polluting the area, but if we bury people with like, heavy chemicals in our body, we actually do nothing kind of find for it. And it's actually the way we designed the system. Wait. So that was one of my questions that I've been wanting to ask you 10:00 have kind of like what are the legal, I don't know if you've had any legal issues or loopholes that you have to go through. And so you're telling me that if one of your family members dies, and you dig a hole in the woods and you bury them in the hole, you would get a fine. But if you had a coffin that was, you know, covered in lacquer and all these chemicals, and you did the same thing, but you put them in a coffin, that would be legal and you why exactly? 10:28 This is a great question. It doesn't make sense. I think it does make sense that you want to sort of have it organized, etc. But even then you're not allowed to do it on the topsoil, you have to bury it. 10:42 There are some like in the Netherlands chef, and normal burial, which people often think is in soil, but most of the times, it's actually in a cement box with like a steel construction with like, literally almost an apartment or just continuing your rent only after life. And then we also have a new concept, which is called natural burial, which is pretty awesome. That's comes very close, in a natural way. So it's like a forest and you get buried, you still get buried often in more raw material materials. But still, it's like 90 centimeters deep, so it's not on the topsoil. And why isn't it interesting to direct people to topsoil? Because then there's more oxygen. And then this the whole process goes much faster. There's more micro organisms to benefit from it. It's just like, the look of life how it was intended. Interesting. Yeah, I've been hearing, you know, there's only three states in the United States that allow composting of human bodies. 11:44 And it is really interesting, you know, I would guess there's just heavy lobbying going around with people who own funeral homes, or they make coffins, and they, they lobby to make these laws into place. But it really shocks me that it is illegal to compost the human body in a lot of places. And, I mean, that's what's happening, you know, and it's very interesting that that's the status quo is to go against it, you know, yeah, exactly. I am curious, though, because, for me, personally, psychedelics have helped, especially, you know, working with magic mushrooms, they've helped me a lot, deal with death, you know, having really high dose experiences, and actually having a death experience, like I've had many, many times during a psychedelic journey where I feel like I'm dying, you know, and even having visions of like, being lowered in the ground and having dirt thrown on me and my family around me throwing flowers and that sort of thing, and going through the whole process. And now, having gone through that, so many times, now, I feel pretty at peace with death, you know, I'm still living organism and I want it. 12:59 I definitely want to know where and you know, but I'm way less scared of it. And way less like, you know, I see the natural cycle of it. And I'm just curious if I don't know if you've you work with psychedelics, or meditation or any spiritual practice, or just having this company? Like, How is your relationship with death changed over time? Yeah, great question. And beautiful to hear your experiences. sounds super interesting. I've never done psychedelics before. But I think working with death, especially in the beginning, it was a big treshold for me, like, first of all, myself, Who am scared of that, but also what What would other people think? Because, yeah, you know, isn't like the hot sexy. Take this, 13:47 as you can imagine, but of course, because now it's happening, people are becoming composts. And I mean, that's crazy interesting. But definitely been around death a lot being around a funeral caretakers discussing, attending funerals, because you want to do product feedback, product review. It makes you super conscious. So literally, for example, yesterday, we had a big funeral, somebody important to choose a product and diet, and it's like, super emotional, very big. And then that's, that's part of the job, which makes you really grateful that you're being alive. And just extra happy. So sometimes made, because the more you hang around there, the more grateful you become Amazon. Yeah, no, I agree. Sorry to add to that even this is also interesting because it also shows that, for example, if the hypothesis is if you are surrounded by death more you become more grateful and therefore have a more meaningful life. It shows that we should really implement more in depth in our life, but we don't do that because we think it's scared whenever there's a bush, for example, dying in the park, we tend to take it out. And by eliminating all those parts of 15:00 Death. I think we're missing knowledge on a very big piece of life. Yeah. When it comes to food as well, I always like the idea of food waste, I think is potentially overused, I think, yes, we throw away more food, and we should recycle it through all people. And there's no reason that we should have hungry people in our world because we are producing enough food. But at the same time, when food rots in our home, I think for most people, there's one this level of disgust you know, of like mold and death and decay. Like I think that's most people's first reaction. But then there's another segment of people that are, you know, like, heartbroken that they, and they call it waste. So like, it's gone bad, you know, and having a compost bin and you know, having like, black soldier fly larva, you know, and there are these larva that are amazing composters. And having a bin full of those and being able, you know, if a piece of vegetable goes past due or, you know, leftovers were in the in the fridge too long. And it's like, it really reshaped my view of it of like, Oh, this isn't waste, like this is food for them, you know, and the cycle continues. And then it makes the soil and that's food for the plant. So then it's food for me again. And then you know, it's reframing the mind around it. And I love what you said, of just reframing people's perception of their own bodies of you know, this is compost. 16:38 His life and the cycle continues. So I, I agree, and I really appreciate your mission and what you're trying to do of reframing people's minds. Thanks. That's great. It's actually funny that you mentioned the brain, I'm actually now working on a project that's called the living brain that will be presented at the Dutch Design Week. And we're going to literally make a bin with micro organisms in it, where you're just like, literally put stuff in and you get soil back and actually doing with sea creatures. So let's see anonymous. Wow, cool. That's awesome. Like the fun stuff to see. And for everyone interested in? Yeah, I mean, for everyone listening here is interested in that. But I mean, like, look into see anomalies. They are so amazing. I found some in my aquarium. And I'm just fascinated me just the same way that well wait, so I'm trying to picture is it a bin filled with water, and then you just throw your compost in there and the sea and enemies will eat it? Is that the general idea? That's basically, exactly, exactly. Really Wow, exactly. So it's like a speculative design, like, now you travel. Like for example, right now in my home, I have a banana peel, I would throw it in the bin, wrap it in plastic, it will get picked up and will drive. I don't know how many kilometers. And then and often it's not separated, but it gets burned. After me that's like, Okay, this is so stupid. Yeah, so what if we have decentralized sort of organism bins that you can put in your trash, even it says home or more centralized for neighborhoods, and on the organisms will get the foods, we'll get some compost out of it. And it's a super beautiful design where you maybe have an aquarium or an I don't know, underwater, under understand on a forest floor, you can see the soil, you can get some education and people are more aware about the decay process, and it just becomes part of the cycle. That's really cool. Yeah, I think even if people don't actually even use the soil afterwards. I mean, just seeing that and having that as kind of their meditation or just to reframe their mind, I think is really important of reconnecting people to life itself and really humbling themselves of not getting out of the ego and seeing us as just one other organism and planet Earth, I think, even if you don't use the soil, but one step further. Yeah, use the soil, make community gardens, you know, get together with your neighbors and compile the compost together and grow some food. That would be the next step, which would be amazing. But even if you don't, it's still incredible to have that mind shift. And that mind shift might make you plant more trees or just get out in the woods more or be more mindful about your consumption or your waste accumulation. You know, I think it's needed. We're, we're getting all the red flags from, you know, climate change and pretty much everything else of saying, hey, we need to reconnect. 19:34 For me, I think disease happens when we're not connected. We're not at ease because we can't, you know, we're not connected to everything else. So I think this is really important to do that. 19:46 And maybe in terms of reconnection was interesting to see during COVID like nature tribes and again, people getting more conscious, not sure how it is in the USA, but I feel like that it covers a little bit over people get back on 20:00 track. And I do feel like there's a certain more interest and movement into like sustainability in circular economy. But I also feel like we're sort of getting back into old habits. How do you experience that in the US? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it seems like we're getting back to quote unquote, normal. I mean, what is normal? But 20:22 yeah. And maybe also, it's a comeback. You also asked me about like, hey, what was maybe a mind shifting or a pivot or? Yeah, telling moment, I actually forgot to tell you that I did. I went on a 10 day. Silent Retreat is like in the Swiss Alps. And it's called Vipassana Yeah. 20:42 I am. Yeah. How was that experience? I've never done it. But a lot of my friends have done it. My mom has done it. It's on my list to do and, or to experience. 20:55 Yeah, okay. It was like, oh, emotions, and think the best thing to call is just like intense. For me, it was really about being alone. So I had a hard time being alone by myself always wanting to be surrounded by other people, because I didn't feel good enough for myself. So I thought, Okay, I need to go in, and I was just graduated, and I'm gonna do to spend 10 days with myself in silence. And I underestimated like, how intense the course was. Looking back, I would advise to start with a three day course. But I don't know, it was really meaningful, and definitely a great weapon against ego, and just trying to find your true north. Yeah. And now, I mean, you were talking about going to funerals, and you must be around a lot of people that are in, that are grieving, you know, in a very deep way. It's interesting, in my experience, it has, I just have a different relationship, just like you do of death. And so for me, it's, you know, I want to celebrate someone's life, the you know, that pass, and I've had family members pass like grandparents, and it's been, for me very light. Whereas other family members of mine, it's been incredibly hard for them. And for me, it's been like, Oh, I'm celebrating, they lived a great life. This is amazing. It's a beautiful part of life, and they lived a complete life and it, you know, I want to celebrate that. And that I feel like I can't, I can't have, I can't express that, you know, for most people, because they're really grieving and having a hard time. And it's like, what are you doing being happier? Like, you know, it's like, that's, that's not what you're supposed to be feeling right now. And I'm just curious, um, what do you have certain practices that you do to, you know, not, one not take on other people's stuff? Because, you know, it could be heavy, kind of, like a psychologist or psychiatrist goodboys is saying, like, do you have to check back in? Or does it weigh on you being around death and grieving? All the time? Or? Yeah, just kind of curious on your relationship with that? Yeah. I think in general, we have contact with like the funeral caretaker. And those most of times have contact with, like the actual family or their loved ones. But sometimes, every now and then also, a family member calls us directly. And then we of course, pick up the phone. And then we hear, yeah, somebody who's griefing. And it's 23:33 emotional, pretty sensitive. So I always am like, oh, shit, I'm sorry, I'm feel really bad for you and sort of acknowledge their pain or their grief. And then, to be honest, also be quite practical. And because most of the time those people are, they want to take their mind off and then or will sort of become super practical and help them the best job possible. And actually simply acknowledge them. I think that's the way how we do it. And for me, it's sometimes it's extra special, because then they are really in love with the product we make. Which is for me still weird, because I feel like hey, I'm just some guy who had an idea. And other people really liked the product and loved the product. And there, there are so many kinds of words for it. And yeah, sort of we made that possible as a team. It's sometimes really overwhelming of like, how many were the main means for them. So that's just also another gratefulness moment, I guess. Yeah. And it's not easy to be very grounded and practical. In those times. I have a really good friend who works in emergency care in Hawaii. And he has told me you know, he sees death homeless on a daily basis of you know, someone gets shot or someone XYZ and you know, he's told me multiple stories of being in these situations where someone's at the very end of their life, you know, it's pretty clear 25:00 or they're bleeding out or something and their family is there, you know, whatever happens, and even other emergency care people are like in shock, you know, they, they arrive on the scene and they're like, really overwhelmed. You know, it could be gruesome, or whatever the situation is. And he just has this ability to be super grounded. And, you know, you said multiple times that he's, you know, been kind of an anchor for the family in that moment and been like, hey, there's a big chance that they might not make it where, like, we're going to take him to the hospital right now. But, you know, there's a very slim chance that he's going to make it so here's your only time to say anything that you want to say to him, you know, and, you know, most people wouldn't think of that, or they're so overwhelmed or so. And he said, those are the most meaningful parts of, you know, his life and their lives of being able to say one last thing, you know, with the kids in the family and he said that, you know, he said so many Yeah, so many people reach out to him after and they're like, I'm so grateful that you made space for us to have that moment because I didn't even think of that you know, and I'm so glad that you've made that space for me to say one last thing so I don't you know, there's so many people living in guilt of I wish I said that one thing I wish I didn't say that one last thing or and so just to create more space around even just talking about death or accepting death you know, my I've a friend to practicing to be a death doula, which you don't even hear right? What is a birth doula, right, and to help the experience of bringing a baby into life, but a death doula is helping you know if someone's on their deathbed of, you know, helping that transition, and are coming at peace with it. And yeah, tons of work with with psilocybin helping relieve the anxiety now you're working with mycelium to decompose the body? I think mushrooms are great teachers all around to help us. Yeah, yeah. What has been the hardest time for you having this business? Maybe regulations, product development, you know, talking to grieving people like what has been the hardest time? I think this was mentally a struggle, in the sense that you start something on your own become sort of a success where you do first, when was the first sell? Actually people use it, and they need to scale up. But you're still pretty much alone. You don't have a lot of funds. But you do need to sort of live up to the expectations that you also put on yourself because you want to you want to change the world, right? Yeah. And I guess those moments were really hard that you're not sure if it's a success, or is it? Just a fun project? And yeah, it is a real busy. To be honest, I just came just super insecure. I started doubting like, everything, should I continue? What should I do? And I was working so much that my social circle was super small. So I really identified with the business. So if your business didn't go, Well, I felt like shit, right? There's also part of the process, I guess. And I'm really grateful for that I had that moment and those emotions, because now I feel like, yeah, we're in a little bit more stable water, because we just got an investment. But to get that investment, and to work so hard for it, it's just really meaningful now that we have it and we can finally spend and invest some money in some stuff to really upskill and take this to more people. Yes, it's really, really nice. 28:40 Yeah, thanks for sharing. I think that's pretty much every entrepreneurs experience. Yeah, it's hard not to get into that trap of because it's your baby. You know, it's hard to not have your ego identify with the business. And if, if the business isn't doing well, like you feel like shit, and it's like, oh, that's me. Yeah. 29:02 And exactly, yeah, what it's good, you know, you get high endorphins, and you feel great. But then any business is a roller coaster. And so that's been a journey of death for me and like accepting, like, killing my own ego or being at peace with with not identifying with it. And that's hard, easier said than done. But that is a big spiritual practice that I've been going through particularly of just being unattached to how the ebbs and flows of the business go. 29:34 It's been hard. Yeah, I feel you it's really hard. Yeah. I wonder what helps you in that process? You have any tips? Oh, man, it's an everyday practice, you know, and for me, I mean, psychedelics always help and just journaling and I didn't know talking to people, you know, and I think realizing, you're not alone and even talking to you. It's like, oh, you're going through the same thing I am. You know, and pretty much every every business owner is 30:00 Yeah, we're all human. We all have these human emotions and we all die. 30:05 And it's all part of the experience is great, right? 30:10 Sometimes comforting, like, whatever we all die. 30:14 Yeah, yeah, quick story. I just went to Peru like a few weeks ago and was working with this plant medicine called the Ayahuasca, which is a site psychedelic brew. And there's just one night where I went with someone I knew, and they had this journey where they had the hardest night ever. And they were, you know, they're like yelling and crying and all this stuff. And the next morning, he was like, I had this vision that I was dying, and it was the worst thing ever. And I turned into the skeleton, and I got buried underground, and it was decaying. And it was like the scariest worst thing ever. And for me that night, I had the same thing. You know, half of my body was disintegrating. And I saw my skeleton. And it's really funny. My reaction to that was like, oh, cool, like, Thanks for the reminder. 31:10 And I was, like, grateful. I was like, oh, Thanks for the reminder, um, you know, this, this body is impermanent. And, yeah, thanks for reminding me that I'm soon gonna die one day, and to live in the moment and be grateful. And it's just funny to connect the next day around that and to share my experience with it. And to see his eyes kind of like light up a little bit of like, oh, yeah, it doesn't have to be bad. And it doesn't have to be this like, you know, heavy thing, you know? Which leads me to my next question of like, this has been like, you know, we're talking about a lot of heavy things. But what's been the most rewarding time in your experience with loot biotech? And, you know, yeah, like, what has been the most nourishing and celebratory and yeah, what has what has given you the most joy doing this work? I think three things. I can name, I think definitely in the beginning, which was really rewarding was just like that everything is new. And you're super excited. You're building like the company logo and the vision around it and coming home and just having too much energy, because you're just so excited. And then celebrating every when I used to go with my girlfriend to a special restaurant. With every wins, we went eating there. I think that was just a Yeah, think very fond of that time that I felt like this, I sort of felt like a dog just sniffing around playing being super jolly, running around, and it was no right or wrong. And like, everything was beautiful. And then, of course, becomes the reality of finance. And yeah, well, we'll skip that part. So there was definitely a real, real good part. Not my real good part was like the first person who bought it. So it was like, Okay, I'm the guy who made a concept to catch somebody ordered it, you need to deliver. And it was a family and I spoke to them. It was a son, various mother. And I met him for the first time and I was like, crazy nervous. So I haven't attended any funerals of any loved ones lately, so it was really not knowing what to expect. And then I talked to him and he was super friendly. He talks about the vision of how his mom boss and she used to be in the garden, for example, giving vegetables and cooking for him as a young child and super personal story and really touched me and then we also went to see the his mom inside of the coffin, and I was super scattering. I was like, Oh my God, you're going to see a dead body. I haven't seen that bodies in my life. How was it? How will this be? And when they opened up the length, it was like super weird because I found a lot of peace. And I actually really enjoyed that moment, which was really really because that's how can I enjoy this moment, but it was super, like literally, like super peaceful and I was there with with the son and the mom. And we looked at each other in the eye and we didn't say much but just like it felt felt okay or something. There was a moment of I will never forget, I'm Turkish with me. And I think then the third one, which is of course, probably really obvious, we participated in like the Dutch version of Shark Tank, the Netherlands called like Dragon's Den. Oh, yeah. 34:27 Just pitch and then you raise money. So I think that was like three months ago, and after so much time bootstrapping just wedding, we raised like 1.5 million in the Dutch version, which was like one of them ever. Nice. So we got finally our funds to upskill hire people and get a little bit of normal life back. Congrats. Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm wishing for you, you know, with this new upgrade that you can outsource a lot of the tasks that you're doing and have more time 35:00 And to play, you know, and kind of embody that first phase that you're talking about so much. Yeah. So I've so many ideas. Oh my god. Yeah. Well, it's gonna happen, you know, and it's good that you have clarity on what feels good and what you want. And I think that that's the most important thing. Well, I know you have a tight cut off in, like two minutes. So where can people find your work and follow you and dive deeper on what you're doing? Yeah, so I think maybe Instagram is most handy, then you can follow my personal work and bio art studio Hendrix. And for the loop living coffin, you can check out nope, biotech. That's our company. And you can see all the posts. And please let me know if you have any ideas or feedback like you guys should focus on this or do that. We're super open to feedback to just learn and improve. Amazing, and I'll have those links in the show notes. Oh, good. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. This was a great conversation and I'm hoping to meet you one day. Yeah. Nice. Thank you for much for for having me. Yeah. And you know, one day in the future I'll be buried in mycelial coffin. I'm looking forward to it. 36:15 Let's leave it to that. That was a great I 36:18 love it. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in. And Truman in we have people from all over the globe tuning in and listening so much appreciation, you know, spread the word. We don't take any donations for this podcast. So how you can sport go into our site at mushroom revival.com. We have a bunch of functional mushroom products from tinctures to capsules, to powders to gummies and a bunch of goodies on there. And we have a bunch of blog posts educational content on there. So check it out and tell your friends about mushrooms. You know, this can go a long way we are the mycelial network. So you know making people inspired about mushrooms should be our mission and what we're doing to connect people back to the planet. So with that much love and may the Force be With You Transcribed by https://otter.ai