Bisexual Death Caps with Yen-Wen Wang
Alisa Nappa
Invasive deadly poisonous death caps are sexual deviants switching from unisexual and bisexual reproduction. We sit down with Yen-Wen Wang to dive into the sexual reproduction strategies of fungi and what makes these death caps so unique in California.
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TRANSCRIPT
Alex 0:11 Welcome, welcome. You are listening to the mushroom revival podcast. I'm your host, Alex Dora. And we are absolutely obsessed with the wonderful, wacky, mysterious world of mushrooms and fungi. We bring on guests and experts from all around the globe to geek out with us and try to figure out what the heck is going on with these mysterious beings. So today we have yen Wen Wang, did I pronounce that correctly? Yes. From New Haven from Yale. We're going to talk about the the illusive, the evasive, the deadly. Amanita phalloides, he's the death cap. So and all all will get pretty pretty in depth into into that mushroom and many more. So how're you doing, man? Unknown Speaker 0:59 I'm doing good. Yeah. Alex 1:01 Cool. Awesome. So for people who don't know your work, what Who are you and what are you up to? Speaker 1 1:06 Okay, so I am young, and I usually go by Danny. I'm originally from Taiwan, and went to Wisconsin Madison for a PhD in botany studying mushrooms. And now I am at the owl doing postdoctoral research on myco. Parasites, fungi that grow on our fungi. Alex 1:27 Sweet. Well. Yeah, I I am also fascinated with myco parasites, but we're gonna, we're gonna focus on something different today. But first, how did you get into the world of mycology, mushrooms, fungi. Speaker 1 1:42 Okay, so I always liked biology, like dinosaurs and insects, etc. And in my high school, I went on a field trip with my biology club. And during that I found quite a wide variety of mushrooms I've never noticed before. And since then, I was hooked to mushrooms. Alex 2:02 Sweet. And so we're gonna talk about, you know, sexual reproduction techniques of different fungi, specifically the death cap. But, you know, and fungi, fungi have a lot of anomalies. And you know, they don't really follow a lot of rules. And if they there is a rule, they're gonna break it left and right. So, you know, for people that don't really know the typical lifecycle of the city of Mikoto mushroom, can you kind of describe what typically happens? Yeah, well, then we'll talk about all the exceptions. Speaker 1 2:41 Okay. Yeah, of course. Um, so, I will start with a sport. So normally a Presidio, my mycotoxin mushroom. They produce these spores called Paseo spores, and they contain one kind of nuclei. And we will call it a hormone carry on hormone means the same carry on inserts nucleus, and then these spores can germinate into home LOCARIO. Take my cilia and so the my cilia have the same kind of nuclei. And this mycelium can then mate with another homo karyotype mycelium and this meeting event. Basically just bring two different kinds of nuclei together, and we'll create a new mill new mycelium called a hetero karyotype mycelium which means that this new mycelium have two different kinds of nucleus. And now when the condition is right, let's have a heter row karyotype mycelium will start to produce like mushrooms. And in the gills of these mushrooms you can find the cells called a Cydia which the tube where the two different new nuclear will fuse and undergo meiosis and forming four new nuclei and each of the nucleus will be sorted into a procedural spore and continue lifecycle Alex 4:17 and the exception comes with this death gap or medium fluid is which can sometimes that whole entire process can be homo chaotic, is that right? Yes, that Speaker 1 4:31 is correct. And so what we found is when we are so so that cap is a kind of mushroom that is native in euro and then invaded into like different areas. And we specifically are interested in California invasive range. And we originally wanted to see like what's the population genetics different between the California population and the European population. And so we just sort of assume that these women who have followed these will follow a typical life cycle. However, when we sequence their genome, we found that some of the mushrooms, like eight out of I think 86 mushrooms do not have any, like genetic diversity inside the mushroom, which means that there's only one kind of nucleus inside this mushroom, these mushrooms. And hence, these are kind of weird and kind of interesting. And they should be like homo Kerio tech, mushrooms instead of the regular hetero karyotype mushrooms. Alex 5:55 Right. And so, so they, the hypothesis is that these mushrooms were brought over with ornamental trees to California around 1938, something like that. And they blew up, they're flourishing. They're invasive in California. Including other regions, I was reading their, you know, their, they went all the way to Australia, and they're really, you know, invading a lot of other places beyond Europe. But this seems to be only a phenomena in California, is that correct? Or it is? We don't know yet. Speaker 1 6:33 So the so we, the original genome sequence, samples were collected from Europe, and California. And later, we collected a bunch of other specimens, including some from Washington, like Seattle, area, stone, or Vancouver, I think it's actually in Vancouver, and some of them are east coast, United States, and also a whole bunch from Europe. And we only found this phenomenon in California. However, there are different possibility that will lead to this observation. So one possibility is it is very rare. And so it happens everywhere. But we, somehow the Californian ones are more like, we are just lucky to find them. Another possibility is that because the California population is a newly established population, and so when a mushroom wants to, or when the mushroom invade into a new environment, there won't be a lot of like, mating partners for to mate with. And so, if it if it cannot have a mating partner, but it can sort of reproduce by itself, then there's more possibility we will see it in this invasive range. And so, yeah, Alex 8:25 so just just so I understand this homo periodic lifecycle, and how it varies from the more quote unquote, traditional hetero, hetero periodic lifecycle, does it does it only need one Spore? And does that spore germinate into a whole milk periodic mycelium which then germinates into that one mushroom? Or are they two identical spores? Two identical genetic spores fusing together into you know, homo chaotic, my cilia? And then that, Speaker 1 9:07 yeah, so that's useless. Yeah. So that's a good question. Um, so I believe that it is pretty hard to get to spores that have the exact same genetic component. And so well, well, if it's a death cap, it will be pretty hard. There are other situation that you can have, yes, same same genetic components in our species. But the idea is that these spores didn't mate with any anything else. It just becomes a bit just formed the mushroom off one sport of one spore Wow, yeah. Interesting. Alex 9:57 Cool, and so when and To say that this lifecycle continues, you know, 10 times, there's the 10th mushroom, is that genetically identical to the first mushroom or Spore? Speaker 1 10:13 So, theoretically, yes, however, there will be always somatic mutations, right, that would pass on. And so the real, realistically, they would have a little bit of variation, however, it's pretty hard to find the, like, find the difference using genome genome sequencing approach. The reason is just usually these genome sequencing approaches will introduce some noises. And it will be hard to differentiate which one is noise? Which one is actually new mutation? Alex 11:01 Right. And, you know, I, I'm curious to get your opinion on this, it seems like it's a on one hand, it's an evolutionary advantage. You know, it's, it's an invaded area there, you don't need another partner, it's a lot easier to just have one sport to make a mushroom. You know, it's, it seems like, it would be an advantage, but at the same time, the lack of genetic diversity would be a disadvantage, which is, you know, why would humans insist is not a smart move? And so is it kind of like a double edged sword where it, you know, faster to reproduce faster to spread, but the disadvantage is genetic. Not as much genetic diversity. And so they're more prone to, you know, myco, parasites, you know, different different things that would potentially wipe them out. Speaker 1 12:08 Yeah, I agree. That is kind of like a double edged sword. And so it is not a good idea to completely rely on the human sexuality as their main reproducing strategy. So I think death cap is kind of interesting that it can do both. And, yeah, but, but I think there are two different things that I want to sort of talk about. Regarding this question. The first one is there are actually some species that only do unisexual. Or only do Yeah, only maybe. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know how they are, how they can sustain that lifestyle. Alex 13:06 I was gonna ask you that question. I was confused on that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 13:11 And so. So one possibility is probably they just lost their. So we are only at looking at the evolutionary snapshot, and they will be they will go extinct in the future. The other possibility is that there are some fungal species that have a lot of like Gene genome, genome wide rearrangements, so their genome sometimes just reshuffle a little bit, and that could introduce some diversity in their genetic pool. And that's probably Alex 13:59 interesting. Yeah. And there's one section of the paper that talked about outcrossing and I wasn't entirely sure what that meant. But you were talking about it in terms of that some homo periodic mushrooms are also the genotype of Homo periodic mushrooms are also found in hetero periodic mushrooms. Implying outcrossing is that when a homo chaotic spiral carp is is you know, that or basidiospores is is then mating with the vicinity of spore from hetero chaotic sperm sperm or carp. Speaker 1 14:48 Yeah, your interpretation is correct. And so, I agree that our outcrossing is a little bit harder to interpret, but what what we mean here is just it can, it doesn't need to breed with self only it can also breed switchback. Yeah. breed with all those things. That's good. Alex 15:13 That's good. Yeah. Um, yeah, cuz that was I was curious if, if you no one once that mutation happened, and once a, you know, a death cap switch to just being homos periodic and just breeding by itself and kind of being the genetic copy of itself over and over again, that it would seem like that would kind of be the death of the species in a way, you know, but the fact that they can, you know, then breed with the traditional, you know, breeding type or however you want to define it, it seems like that is an evolutionary advantage. But my question with that is, if, if those two mushrooms then had offspring? I don't know if there's any data on dude, they're offering have a higher likelihood of mutating back into that. That homo periodic Sparrow carp. Speaker 1 16:16 Yeah. So, um, so, yeah, we don't have any data on that. And I think so. So one question I have about, about, like this project is, like, if so right now we think like homo karyotype. Mushrooms are like a new trait, and emerges in California and invasive rage. However, that might not be true. And so basically, another hypothesis is, death cap can always do homo karyotype and heterotic. Mushroom formation. But usually, when you're when the death caps is in their native range, there are so many other sports going around. And so yeah, to just Alex 17:20 do you think this could be potentially true with all Pacino? Mikoto that any any mushroom technically can can do this. But if they're in an optimal environment, they don't have to. Speaker 1 17:33 Yeah, I think that's a valid hypothesis. And we do not, not me and not my lab, but some other mycologist do have some evidence for that. And so, for example, skills of filling if I wait, yeah, for example, skills or film come in. They, if you if you if you sort of cut the colony, the mycelium a little bit, some strains of this species will just form they don't mushrooms. Or if you grow some strain of this mushroom long enough, it will also form mushroom like structures. However, I don't think I don't think these mushrooms are the mushrooms that we found in the amine authorities the unisexual mushrooms. So those mush low scores of Fela makan Moon mushrooms seems to be asexual and are seems to be sexual. But yeah, there's more research needs to be done on that. Alex 18:55 You know, I just read an article. About a year ago, it happened last summer that I think this crocodile was in a zoo or something, and there was no access to any male crocodiles. And the female crocodile got pregnant and gave birth to a little baby crocodile that was 99.9% genetically identical to the mother. Like wild that, you know, this happens apparently a lot in nature that, you know, it's like that scene from Jurassic Park. It's like nature will find a way you know, and these Yeah, you know, if, if, if the if the environment is not optimal, the need for survival is big is bigger than whatever limitations and they will evolve to find a way to keep reproducing which is just really crazy to think that we understand nature and they they will continue to evolve outside whatever box that we choose to define it in. So this is yeah, this is pretty wild. And you use a couple of different different phrases and I assume that they're just different words for this the same thing but unit sexuality and bisexuality in terms of fungi, are they just the same words for homecare biotic and hetero chaotic? Speaker 1 20:28 So yeah, we have a lot of discussion of the choice of words to describe what we found. And I think for for less project or for what we found, the most interesting part is probably at these fungi, obviously, do not need another mating partner to mate. However, it also do not contain two different kinds of mating type jeans. And so usually, when you think about fungi mating, to homall karyotype, funders will carry two different kinds of mating type jeans. And then when they are, when they made it, the the two mating type jeans will, will produce these proteins and the proteins needs to work together, enabling the sexual reproduction. And so you can think about a scenario that there's a kind of fungus, a single, which includes a single nucleus, but let's nucleus have both of the mating type genes. And so, if that's the case, then it's not surprising that it can do sexual reproduction by itself. However, in our case, we only see one TYPE of mating type chain. And this is why that I use the term unit sexuality rather than Homer carrier tick through thing. Yeah, and Homer carrier food coming home. Oh, karyotype fruiting is actually more historic term. That is for the phenomenon that the single nucleus contains two different mating type genes, and they are activated. But it's not what we found in this in the death camps. Alex 22:46 To to other phrases as I went down this rabbit hole that I kept running into that hopefully you can define bipolar and Tetra polar mating systems. Speaker 1 22:58 Okay? Sure. So bipolar, then Tetra polar mating systems nowadays, it's referring to how many mating type loci are there. And so, basically, if there's one mating type loci, which is so basically, a Llosa is like a location in the genome. And so if you only have one of this location, we call it by code bipolar. If you have two of these locations, we call it a Tetra polar. And why is the PI and Tetra Tetra? My understanding is that originally when mycology is trying to breed mushrooms, they germinate these spores from a single mushrooms, and then they tried to make these germinating spores together. And for they were fine. There are two types of mushrooms. The first type produce two kinds of spores, A and B. And only when A and B were combined, new mushrooms can be formed. And because they are two types, it's called a bipolar. Whereas these the second type, there are four kinds of spores ABCDE. And we're only when A and B were combined, or when C and B were combined, new mushrooms can be formed. And that is why it's called a Tetra polar system. Yeah. And so later on genetics found the relationship between bipolar Tetra polar and genetic loci. And so, this is how we are defining it right now. Alex 24:56 Interesting Have you talked about in the paper? How you hypothesize that these homework periodic mechanisms have existed in California for the last seven to 17 years? How did you hypothesize that date range? Speaker 1 25:17 Um, so. So the date is quite simple. So we found, we first found. So there are two different individuals that can do homework heterotic can confirm hormone karyotype mushrooms. And what the first one we found is in 2004, and then we repeatedly found it in 2014 15. And then 2021, and that's 17 years old. Have Homer carry otic? Mushroom individual. And the other one, we found that in 2014, and 2021, I believe, and that will be the seven year old individual. Now that we actually have another specimen from 1993. That is hetero karyotype. Mushroom. Um, but one of the copy of this mushroom? Well, I have a copy of the genome of this mushroom is the to the first homo karyotype. Individual. And so that suggests it's actually a little bit this homo karyotype, mushroom individual is actually a little bit older, probably around 30 years old. Yeah, if we consider that that dollar mushroom? Alex 26:58 And was that specimen in a Hungarian? Or was that an old paper that was done? Speaker 1 27:07 So let's let mushroom I think it's still in my PhD advisors, lab. And we did reported this mushroom in the paper. The thing is, when we are writing this paper up, we didn't know if this mushroom is actually the parent of the Homer Kerio take individual, or is it the offspring of the HOMO karyotype individual. So So later, when I look into myco, Kundry, or data, I will spare the details of that. But when we investigate the mitochondrial genome of this individual and the HOMO karyotype individual, we found that they have different mitochondrial genomes, which suggest this ODE in the Bode, mushroom, hetero karyotype mushroom should be an offspring of the HOMO karyotype ik individual. And so that's why my estimate would now be 30 years rather than 17. Alex 28:26 This might be an intellectual blunder on my part of viewing this as a negative evolutionary mechanism. Because I'm referring to incestuous relationships in human beings, and all the negative side effects that happen when when that takes place. This is a little bit different because it's a genetic copy, rather than being very genetically similar and mating. So a bit different. So I might be viewing this and kind of a negative filter in my own mind, but But however, you did observe in these in the sport carps are these mushrooms that there were a strange number of bacillus spores per the city ranging from one to three. So it seems like and it's less than the average of four Presidio spores per the city. So it seems like it is a negative thing, right? If you have less spores per city, it seems like that would be a negative thing. But negative mutation. What what do you think is happening with that, you know, do you think it's it's a negative mutation or what's kind of your stance on that? Speaker 1 29:57 So So actually, I Don't know if there anything related between the numbers of spores purpose media and uni sexuality reproduction? I think it's probably worth investigating. But I don't know how to do the investigation. Yeah, it's, it would be quite challenging to do it on Deaf caps because we cannot grow them in the depth. Right? Yeah. But on the other hand, there's the there are a group of minutes called amendment of ice for Rajpura, which is basically a White Death caps, or I think people call it destroying angels. And these guys only have two spores purpose Iidea. And the interesting part is, it is kind of similar to the situation in the three sport death camps. And so if you remember that I say, when Pisidia do these Mayo says there will be four nuclei, the four nuclei will be sorted into four different bacillus spores in death caps, one nucleus or three sport that caps, one nucleus will be stayed inside of the Cydia, presidium and other three will be sorted into the three personal spores. This is the same this is basically the same situation in beisbol, Regera, two nucleus that two nuclei will be left behind in the best Cydia and the other two, but psidium. tunic that will be sorted into the sea of spores. And so, yeah, bicycle, Reza is still very well alive in the world. And so I'm not sure if there's actually a disadvantage for this phenomenon to happen. Alex 32:14 I mean, if if they only need one sport to mate, or to, you know, to grow a new mushroom, you don't need that many. So, so that there is an advantage there where you know, you only need one sport, then you're kind of automatically if it's dropped in the right environment, you're automatically you get a mushroom. So that's, that's pretty good. So, you know, you don't need as many I don't know about destroying angel. I'm curious to figure out why why they would evolve to only have two. I know, I know, with Pacino, myco they range from like two to six. But average is four. And I'm also curious, I don't know if you know the answers this or anyone does. But what I've always been curious about this, what the evolutionary advantage of having these toxic compounds in mushrooms. I would think that, you know, there's a lot of mushrooms and, you know, truffles they specifically want animals to eat them and insects to interact with them to help spread the spores and that they love that. They're like, yeah, like eat us up, you know, spread, either, you know, will be dropped in your dung or, you know, will will be trapped onto your finger or something, you know, but we Yeah, eat us up. Well, like that's, that's great. Why? Why do you think that only only certain, you know, only a small percentage of mushrooms have it poisonous compounds in them. And what do you think the evolutionary advantage of that is? Speaker 1 33:58 Yeah, this is a pretty good question. Um, and so, so I think one, so. So there are quite a few different hypothesis. The issue with like, the, like defending mushroom from larger mammals is like, they, these a lot of time, I don't think the memo's would be able to learn to not eat them. And so So basically, they eat and after a week, and then they die. And so there's no there's no time for them to learn to not eat them. And so there's not a lot of advantage to kill these bigger memos. There are other hypothesis including ones that are related to insect, so smaller invertebrates. But when you look at these mushrooms, you definitely can see love in their vertebrates in them, like a lot of a lot of insects. Yeah. And so, um, the, like, I think my, my PhD advisor and Pringle, she were she had, she had a project that wanted to look at, like, what's the difference? Of great, what's the, what's the insect diversity or invertebrate diversity, difference in the death caps versus all other kinds of mushrooms. And I am not sure if it went anywhere. And I'm not sure if somebody is still working on that. And then there's another hypothesis, which is, these mushrooms produce this toxin to compete with all other kinds of fungi. This is quite a good hypothesis. However, I know that a lot of fungi are actually are, are resist with basically, the toxin will not affect these fungi is growth. And so, um, and so yeah, there's another problem with that. apoptosis. Alex 36:41 Are you aware of any research on the effects of these toxic compounds on insects? Speaker 1 36:52 Not not, really. I think I read a paper about all these toxins that wouldn't kill certain type of things. I think it's basically just awful law. But yeah, but I'm not so sure about it. It's been a while. Alex 37:17 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's interesting, because there's a pretty well studied theory that, you know, for first psilocybin and, and silsden it, there's a theory that it has nothing to do with mammals, and it's just kind of a side effect. And, and actually, you know, humans evolved to have the receptors to, to ingest these magic mushrooms and have this psychedelic experience. But the mushrooms evolved this, you know, hundreds of millions of years, before we even came onto the planet. And it was actually for insects to, you know, have all these different mechanisms to reduce their appetite as if they're competing with, say, termites to eat wood. And so they, they have the termites eat the psilocybin to suppress their appetite. So they, the fungi then have more wood to eat, and it has nothing to do with, you know, making humans high. Like, it's just it's for, that's just a, an interesting side effect. So I'm curious if the same thing happened with, you know, death cap destroying angel, where they produce these compounds to interact with insects and interesting ways. So then humans and higher mammals came along, and it just happens to kill us. And it has a totally different effect on on these insects. And it's just like an interesting side effect of evolution. So if anyone listening knows the answer to this, like, please send us a message because I'm, I'm curious about that. In your research, I'm just curious what what do you predict is the future of death caps in California, in Europe and worldwide? Speaker 1 39:09 So So right now, when I'm aware of the death cap can be found in Europe, like Australia, Oceania, and North America included in the Vancouver Island, California and east coast around New Jersey. And the place that spread the fastest is probably the west coast. So it's quickly spread from California to Vancouver Island. I'm not sure if the Vancouver Islands death camps we're from California or it's actually also from Europe or somewhere else. But it seems like West Coast or like temperate, temperate climate is kind of suitable for Lee's death caps. And so I would, I would expect there or hypothesize there will be more spread in the west coast of California and probably other similar kind of environment. But also due to global warming, I think there will be a lot of a lot more spread toward the north, and due to the lack of rain rainfall differences. There could be also some shifts in population. But I am not too sure about like, what the future trajectory of the global climate and so I cannot actually predict like, where you can find that in the future. Alex 41:03 What has been your would you say is the hardest part of your work? Speaker 1 41:07 I think my the hardest part of my work is trying to find good support for my findings without actually culturing the mushroom. As I mentioned before, I cannot cut we cannot culture the mushrooms just yet. And so, if for normal mycologist, what if they found this they will probably just culture land and then see if they can induce a homo Kerio tick fruiting, but sorry, I should say unisexual fruiting. But we cannot do that here. And also, if we are interested in the genetics of these mushrooms, we cannot do the genetics, we cannot knock a gene out, we cannot introduce a gene to figure out anything. And so, it would be the question would then be how I can use the existed data, the genome data mostly to support my findings. And it is quite challenging and requires a lot of like creativity, and sometimes it just don't work. Alex 42:29 Yeah. If you had unlimited resources, money time equipment team, but what do you do? Speaker 1 42:39 Are you referring to the death cap work? Or Alex 42:42 in general? Yeah. I mean, definitely, definitely touch on the death cap work. But you know, I'm curious. Yeah, what would you do in general. Speaker 1 42:52 So I think for death cap, I would be interested in trying to basically map out where or where the death caps can be found. And then try to find the range that death caps just just emerge. And because if you remember that, I say the reason why we found unisexual mushrooms in California, it's probably it's a newer environment. And there are not a lot of mating partners there. And so if we can go to, like, the invasion invasive front of these mushrooms, there wouldn't be a lot of mating partners for them. And so probably, we can find a lot more unisexual mushrooms there, which will be quite interesting to me. Yeah. And in general, I'm more interested in generating like a holistic view of how, like mushroom or how fungi grow as a multicellular organism. And so if there's unlimited resources, money, time team, et cetera, what I would try to do is I will try to map out like all the different molecules, all the different genes, proteins inside mushrooms in different time stages across the range of species. And then I can try to figure out like how different species grow into mushrooms and how different molecules on genes proteins contribute to that in the evolutionary framework. Alex 44:50 What would you say is the most rewarding aspect of of your work? Speaker 1 44:54 So I think the most rewarding part of work on the death cap work is that when I went back to the site, when I went to the site to collect these mushroom, so my PhD is six years, and for the first four years, or five years, I think it's four and a half years. I was all in Wisconsin Madison, just analyzing data. And then we finally have the chance to go back to California to resample these mushrooms and that is basically the first time I see floaties in the wild. And the most exciting part is that we went back to the exact side and the rediscovering them. And that is kind of unexpected. That we are like, kind of lucky to they are still alive. And for you. We are lucky to actually sample these mushrooms. And which is very rewarding to me Alex 46:10 when we're in California. It's Unknown Speaker 46:13 in Point Reyes National Seashore. Alex 46:16 Cool. Yeah. Probably Probably a lot prettier than Wisconsin in New Haven. Yeah. Cool. That's awesome. And so where can where can people follow your work? Both, you know, if you continue with these death caps for myco, parasites, anything, anything else that you do? I don't know, if you have a website, Google Scholar, what Twitter? What's the best way that people can follow you? So Speaker 1 46:43 I have a Google Scholar, you can find me using my name, y e n dash W E n space, w n G. Yeah, that's my name. You can find me on school Google Scholar. And I also have Twitter. It's ye W E and W A and G. And you I will share some of my new papers. overdue. Alex 47:11 Awesome. Sweet. Well, thank you for coming on the show. This has been super interesting. It's not my forte, as you could probably tell from from my line of questioning of how foreign a lot of these these topics are, to me, but it's, it's, I always love bringing on people on the podcast that bring me out of my comfort zone. And then by the end helped me view fungi and just the world in a different lens. So I just really appreciate the work that you're doing and helping me understand fungi in a new way. So that that's super exciting. For people that are tuning in and tuning in, you know, thank you. As always, wherever you're tuning in from around the world, we have people from hundreds of different countries tuning in, and you know, it's so exciting all the different ways that we can geek out with fungi and and, and connect with these amazing beings and form a symbiosis. So thank you for tuning in. 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My newest book The Little Book of mushrooms is on there as well if you want a cute little coffee table book and as always, you know keep spreading the the mushroom wisdom if you learn something cool in this episode, definitely tell your your friends family random person that you meet on the street, get them hooked into mushrooms and keep spreading this this mycelial voyage. The more people into mushrooms in nature, the better so as always much love commit the spores be with you Transcribed by https://otter.ai
